Rogue Set

Feedback on test runs for open beta and more.
fox
Posts: 124

Rogue Set

Post#1 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:24 pm

Appears the timer on the rogue/monk set activation is now a legitimate 3 minutes real time.
Purposeful?

fox
Posts: 124

Re: Rogue Set

Post#2 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:23 am

:(
Rogue and monk sets for trade.

fox
Posts: 124

Re: Rogue Set

Post#3 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:17 pm

We really need to talk about this.

With this change, (3 min duration on AB bonus and concealment, on rogue and monk sets), you have effectively ruined no less than 4 of my builds. We have been playing with this as it was for more than a year now, which in Trinity time feels like 100 years.
This should have been changed opposite to make description match the duration. I was wondering why I was wiping so often my last visits to DL and BDL. But now its obvious I keep losing what is a critical bonus to the class, and in fact made the classes viable.
The talk I always hear is about balancing. If the sets are out of balance is because of the unmatched durations, why not bring them all up to the highest instead of bringing them down to the lowest?
None of us are getting any younger in a game that will have an average user age of 45.
Just keep opening the game up. You shouldn't change what is good to bad. Keep changing bad to good. The reality of this is people are not playing other melee sets because they were nerfed heavily and never returned to their former glory.
Minimum 10 min duration. Similar to EXTENDED DISPLACEMENT SPELL, duration 12 minutes.

Samyx
Posts: 679

Re: Rogue Set

Post#4 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:35 pm

And quite surprisingly I add my voice on this.
The first quick win boost I had asked for monks is to have same set power as rogue have, with the same duration. the goal was to benefit for the long term buff, not to reduce the rogue one.
Fox's proposal seem reasonable, in my humble oppinion, please make it 12 minutes for rogue&monks, like the average uberpowerarcane.
Samyx

Inasogard
Posts: 44

Re: Rogue Set

Post#5 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:25 am

I'd like to throw in my two cents. I have only been here about 3 weeks now and loved seeing these sets and bonuses. For the special ability, in my opinion would be great to see it only work with the full set, or at least 4 pieces. Make it a long duration or even a permanent affect. The sets bring so much fun and excitement to your characters, having something that only works 2 times for 3 minutes, doesn't really so awesome for a special ability. Just my thoughts.

Fraggle
Posts: 162

Re: Rogue Set

Post#6 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:33 am

@ Fox,
I have difficulties to believe, that a " correct " Duration on Special Cloak Ability, kills your Builds. Long time ago, i tested all Areas at Eventserver without using Cloak Special, and what should i say, i was able to solo all.
Sure the changes n Duration and now correct working Finishing Stroke, let feel the Rogue like a new Toon.

@ Fox, Samyx
Both Monk and Rogues are high AB and AC builds. Both can sneak and allows some tactics. Rogue has decent AB, AC and Damage even without Cloak Special. Monks dont lack AB or AC too, thy mainly missing a Special Crowd Control. But thats a complete different Story. Tested all Areas with corret Duration and the only Change was the mode at BDL i can go fast through from EX2 to EX 1. Ist possible to go higher too as Area allows resting there. All Areas cost now a bit more resting and rebuff time. Ist easy to see when Cloak Special runs out and it should be no Problem to activate it again when needed. Suggest play lesser careless, use more tactics and you will see how strong your Rogues are. Ist the only Class on the Server which can solo all Areas onr Rot in a decent time, even Arcanes cant.

@ Inasoguard,
the special on Rogue is + 8 AB, 60 Percent Concealment and thats fairly very strong, to strong to give it perma Duration.

General the only thing i would change is uses per Day from 2 to 3, to make few Areas easier to play.

Samyx
Posts: 679

Re: Rogue Set

Post#7 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:30 am

...or hoard monk amulets and rogue cloaks, Like I have done during the last quarter. That's serious tactics !
Seriously, I suggest it lasts longer.

fox
Posts: 124

Re: Rogue Set

Post#8 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:21 pm

@ Fragg You solo that with no conceal? Or you had 50% conceal on your toon? (6 feats) How many shards did you use? Did you ever make it to ex 1? Was this before or after you found a rogue set? (Seems to me you never played one until you got set w/ Kukris) Can you share more of your awesomeness with the rest of us? (I want to solo ex6 naked also, and think everyone wants to.)

12 minutes is length of Displacement spell.

Reason rogues were given this: They need it. They are not high AB (false Frag. fact check). 6 feats to get what uber-arcane has with flick of the wrist!!!

The set made the class viable. I was literally first one to get a set (tester). I rode out all the changes and it settled into something decent that a lot of people want to play. Mortis did great work to make us rogues viable.

Fraggle
Posts: 162

Re: Rogue Set

Post#9 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:17 pm

For sure Fullset with Kukri, but would work with other Weapons too. Solo some high Contents on EX is Suicide, for such Runs Party up.
Yes Rogues have high AB compared to non magicbuilds ( you can build magic boost builds too ) +15 passive AB Boost and + 8 for dificult fights is more than any other non Magic Class has.
Yes i survive without conceal too. Changes lead to a simple adjustement of playing Style not more.
Try Eventserver without using Cloak Special, you will see it works, at several fights more or less no difference.

addict-ant
Posts: 684

Re: Rogue Set

Post#10 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:30 pm

The dev team were not going to go with an 18min duration (as was), as this just means a slightly uncomfortable version of a permanent effect. I remain utterly unconvinced on a 12min duration for the same reason.

Also, 12mins would require an extended displacement with a caster level of 60, unless i very much miss my guess. Let us not forget that even before the arcane rework an extended displace lasted 528secs (8.8mins) with a max CL of 44.

Trying to keep this in perspective, the other melee set 'clickies' (that i can think of, correct me if i'm wrong) are as follows:
Black Guard - BAB 40, +12STR, +18 dmg, 60% conceal for 1min; 2/day
Paladin - +500hp, regen 20, Ethereal for 30secs; 3/day
Fighter - 50/DR-, 75% conceal for 1min; 3/day
Swash/Thug - 85% conceal vs ranged only +300hp for 2mins, regen 60 for 30secs; 3/day
Eldritch Knight - +5AB, 75% conceal for 1min 30secs; 3/day
Dwarven Defender - Barkskin/Regen Spell CL 13 ;3/day

Rogue/Monk being +8 AB, 60% conceal for 3mins and regen 20 for 30secs; 2/day seems pretty darn strong in comparison.

As Monk is now a full BAB class with access to EWF and Rogue set has a passive AB boost to make up for med BAB, I can't see as either require a semi-permanent +8 AB. There are also several methods of obtaining a displacement buff: droppable items, pandora's/sequencers, scrolls, party members; if you really feel you need it for a difficult area and the cloak plus resting isn't enough.

Not to mention the fact the duration was a developer error in coding, it was never meant to last that long - and this is the real crux of the matter for me personally. Every time a dev does anything there is a chance of an error that under-powers or over-powers something. If every time it over-powers something, the call is 'keep it and raise everything else!', then that is an enormous amount of dev work - there are simply not enough devs, or time, to do that. Would you want to do that? You make an error and suddenly you have tons more work to do; far, far more than just correcting the error would take?

If an error is made you fix it, you don't re-write the system to accommodate the error.
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