Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

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Itaasi
Posts: 804

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#21 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:56 pm

I really like how well thought out all the proposed changes are.
Especially that the spells, who get the SR-check removed lose a bit of damage to compensate for the increase in ability to hit enemies :)

addict-ant
Posts: 708

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#22 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:09 am

A big thank you to everyone for their ideas!

I think I can say with some confidence that all spell casters will eventually have their CL increased by 5%/ER and static ER bonuses in spells removed.

I also have to say that my only remit is in altering spells - that's not to say a dev might not be willing to pick up class changes but it's not currently within the scope of the project.

But please do keep the ideas coming though if you have them.


P.S. this has been a really pleasant thread to read - thanks for keeping it positive.
Image

Samyx
Posts: 723

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#23 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:29 am

Hello !
Has any developper seen this and could give a feedback on the possibilty of those changes?
Kr smayx

MortisCorpus
Posts: 1557

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#24 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:43 am

The proposal for further Bard PrCs is under administrative review. I’m uncertain if it will go through yet. Hopefully it will. This will add to classes that qualify for the Bard UMB, bard song DC, SoV song etc. It is a contentious topic since the code is rather convoluted and the Divine rework is underway. Also this would be the first proposed change to a class effecting the Item Level Restrictionists since A_Ghost left the dev team.

As to the spells we are certainly reading and it’s good feedback.

Mortis
Administrator, Dungeon Master

Samyx
Posts: 723

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#25 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:15 pm

Thanks Mort,
Note that I only wish to have a feedback on the overall proposed change, but I am not in a hurry to have it done, I know your bandwith is limited and you devs have lots on your to do list.
At your disposal for it, when the appropriate time comes.
Samyx

Acid Astral
Posts: 1

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#26 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:54 am

Hello all. I'd also want to mention that making a bard-caster viable would make this class much more interesting.
So far people only take few levels of bard to improve their combat abilities. There are no pure bards, even more so - no bard casters. why? cause their spells are... bad.
I stand strong for bard magic overhaul, as i love this class and would love to see it "viable". As I'm a musician myself, i'd enjoy smashing my enemies with sound power ^^

I like the proposed changes, especially bypassing sound resistance with PRC lvl 10, though i'd want to adress much more significant problem here - bards can't have auto-quicken, which kills the idea of a bard-caster by itself, as the feat needs level 9 spells. please, give an option to pick auto-quicken feats for bards. that's the most important thing to do.
Also, adding Orbs of sound for bards would be much appreciated. u can even remove ice storm in the exchange (as it doesn't ehm suit bard at all anyway. and doubt that anyone would go frostmage/bard just for an ice-storm that can't even be maximized, lets make them just sound-focused class)

Fraggle
Posts: 165

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#27 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:15 pm

Hello all,

very interesting Discussion and several nice Suggestions.

Sadly i dont like the Idea of Bards a s Full Caster ( Damage Dealer ) Class. from my Roleplay understanding Bards are Generalists and not Specialists. And like all Generalists, they can do many things good/well but not excellent as Specialist can do ( i.e. Damage with Spells ). Lets take a short look what Bards have and maybe what they lacks.

Bardics Goodies:
- Illusionary Minion ( eats 50 percent of incoming Damage, except AoE Damage/Effect )
- 17 Lvl Bard can equip all ( except Crook and Sets )
- Cursesong with no save and DC only stacking with Lvl and Perform
- Bardsongs like Fascinate, Legionaires Marsh and more
- Spells like Displacement and more
- Inspirations
- with Inspire Courage, Cursesong, Snowflake Wardance and DP descent AB

Bardic Problems ( in my Opinion ):
- poor Fortitude Save
- low DC for several Spells and no autoquicken ( thats the point why i have doubts for Bards as Full Caster )
- They lacks Epic Feats ( whole Bunch of boosting Inspirations cost a lot of Feats, so where is the room for Autoquicken and PrC cost although Feats )
- Medi Low HP/ Saves ( Saves can repaired by BG, but cost Feats and a Class too )
- Bards works only buffed, after despelling, they are Dead Meat
- EDM Bards feels hours till they are buffed and ready for Combat
- Its mainly a Supporter Class, not many Players are willing to play Supporter
- no own Set
- not sure, works Fascinate, Cloud Mind and other CC Songs at Endcontents ( for sure on Exmode )?
- no uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Improved Evasion, Turn undead ( for all these you must Dip with other Classes )

Changes i would suggest :
- Acces for Arcanes Epic Shard Feature Teleport ( in my Opinion, no argue that actual totally OP Arcanes can put WEALTH on Armor and have Teleport too, i think especially Supporter Classes need love, not Damage Dealer, maybe this would inspire more Players to play a Supporter Class like Bard )
- Epic Feats Progression like Favoured Souls ( and some extra Feats for Bardic PrC )
- Removing evasion for Canaith Lyrist and give this Class another Bardic typic Requirement like Bard lvls or Bard Song lvls 14+, or specific Song, Inspiration .....
- working CC Songs at Endcontents ( Exmode )
- maybe a Bardic Sonic Version for Orb of Disrutpion ( with working DC )
- when more and better Casting Abilities, several Sonic based CC effects with working DC, like Greater Shout should bump Enemies from their Feets for 1 round or so and autoquicken

General, Orb of Sound ( or similar Damage Spells ) should have than another CC effect. From point of Damage, Orbs make 400- 500 per cast ( on no instilled Enemie or with no Sonic weakness ), thats 800-1 k Damage per round, really poor, compared to other Arcane Spells or Melee/Archer.
I have doubts that a Damage Dealer Caster Bard would make descent damage. Your way you started with Songs and Curses is in my Opinion the right Direction.

Sincerly yours, Fraggle

Fraggle
Posts: 165

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#28 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:06 pm

Hello again,

after reading a while at Content Library, several other and more Suggestions comes to my Mind.
I`ll try to sort my Thoughts.

Bardic Class:
- Epic Feats Progression ( number of Feats ) like Favoured Souls
- uncanny Dodge at Bard lvl 12 and Armor Skin 1 at Bard lvl 21

Canaith Lyrist:
- remove Requirement Alignment
- remove Requirement Evasion
- Bonus Feats at lvl 5 and 10 ( why not only Bardic specific Feats )
- Evasion at lvl 4 and improved Evasion at lvl 9

Dissonant Chord:
- Greater Spellmantle and/or Globe of Invulnerability as Bardsong

Lyric Thaumathurge:
- Bonus Feats at 4,7, 10
- Instill vulnerability Sonic on Curse Song at Lvl 10, Sonic Instill 0,5 x Perform Skill ( AoE Curse Effect )

Stormsinger:
- Bonus Feats at lvl 4,7,10
- Instill vulnerability Electricity on Curse Song at lvl 10, Ele Instill 0,5 x Perform Skill ( AoE Curse Effect)

Both Instilltypes should stack on Curse Song.

Think this is enough to think about :).

Sincerly yours, Fraggle

Samyx
Posts: 723

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#29 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:15 am

Hi !
I was wondering if there was plan i implement some of those ideas ?
Any schedule of sorts ?
Thanks
Kr Samyx

MortisCorpus
Posts: 1557

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#30 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:22 am

There is not currently a developer who has taken this on. This conversation / information continues to be purely theory for possible future application.

Mortis
Administrator, Dungeon Master

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