Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

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Samyx
Posts: 575

Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#1 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Hey guys !
You know what ? As I have returned, I write again my favorite post until this is taken into account seriously.
This post is scheduled every two years until I die, the forum dies, or bards finally get some spells that work as they should.
Kr , Samyx
------------------------------------------
Hi,
As bards will have seemingly no love in the next Kaedrin pack, can you please do something to make bard specific spells do actually something ?
- SymPATHETIC vibrations do a nice F/X but no damage at all, whatever your CL and boosts, and it has spell resistance, which is pathetic.
- Resonating bolt is always resisted
- Fire AOE sometimes make mobs fall, which is fun, but I am not sure it is its real goal
- Dirge never works
- I can't say about the debuffing spells, as mobs always display the "spell resisted" icon above them, so I do'nt even bother to use them.
Thanks !
Last edited by Samyx on Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

konst3d
Posts: 551

Re: Return of the sister of the Vengeance of the bard's tale, part 3

Post#2 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:57 am

Does harsh casting feats work for bards?
Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

MortisCorpus
Posts: 1520

Re: Return of the sister of the Vengeance of the bard's tale, part 3

Post#3 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:53 am

Nope. We are giving Bards consideration in the Spell Rework. So, feel free to detail things you would like. If they are proposed in a fair fashion, we will at the very least read them, and most.. implement them.
Dungeon Master, Administrator, Lord of Ahala
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Samyx
Posts: 575

Re: Return of the sister of the Vengeance of the bard's tale, part 3

Post#4 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:40 pm

I will.
Thanks Mort for this answer, gives some hope.
Remember however that I only wish them to work and do something, that would be at least nice.
Now, if you let me mind changes... I'll detail them.
Kind regards, Samyx

addict-ant
Posts: 560

Re: Return of the sister of the Vengeance of the bard's tale, part 3

Post#5 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:55 pm

If you have suggestions, I am all ears (or is that eyes :lol: )

I can't promise to correct any current faults myself but i can certainly ask MadMage to take a look as and when we get there (bards are toward the bottom of the list i'm afraid). Please know your comments are noted for further investigation of those spells.

If you have ideas, please post them - may i suggest changing the name of the thread to something like 'Bard Spell Rework Suggestions'?

However, as Mort said, no guarantees can be offered that we can, or will, use the ideas but we will, most assuredly, read them and consider them.
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fox
Posts: 97

Re: Return of the sister of the Vengeance of the bard's tale, part 3

Post#6 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:49 pm

Thinking bards should be the master of Sonic spells, receive bonus damage that no other class can match in said spells.
This could also be related to mind-affecting spells as we all know music goes right to your head.

Randomn4me
Posts: 12

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#7 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:02 pm

If you are taking bardic comments for the rework beyond just spells then I have a couple of thoughts too:

1) Bardic caster levels to work with Bladesong style. This would provide a viable option for snowflake wardance feat for a melee type bard (even more so if the dodge cap is removed :) )
2) Lyric Thaumaturge provides small bonus to sonic damage and bypasses sonic resistance. Perhaps this could be boosted slightly to provide a better caster type bard. Sacrifice is the low BAB progression and use of a PrC.

With regard to spells however, other than fixing the broken ones, I don't agree with boosting the spells damage really as the Bard is supposed to be a support character rather then a flat out caster. With so many extra spell slots on gear a bard with 20+ copies of greater shout and ice storm (1/2 damage save but unresistable and no save but resistable) is still a reasonable caster simply not as effective as full wizard.

The one spell I would like to see modified is Sirine's Grace. Barkskin and Shield of Faith both provide extra AC benefits beyond +12 gear from the Druid and Cleric spell lists. Bards offer dodge AC bonus from the inspiration which no one wants. If Sirine's Grace could be cast on others especially if set to Shield AC bonus instead of deflection it would make this a very useful spell and one that could really benefit teams.

fox
Posts: 97

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#8 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:55 pm

Yes and if you grant any class shield ac w/o shield I would actually like it on all the classes I play also , thank you very much have a nice day , sugar and cherries!

Randomn4me
Posts: 12

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#9 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:07 am

Good point, archers and dual wielders would unfairly benefit from Shield AC bonus from the spell. Maybe Armour Bonus then?

Samyx
Posts: 575

Re: Bard's tale : Sonic Magic Overhaul

Post#10 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:28 am

Hello
Here the change request batch !
Kr Samyx
----------------------------

General Idea
------------
Bards can be used those ways :
A/ 1-8 levels : For AB buffs mainly
B/ 17+ bard levels : For Hybrid bard, Song, hymn, class restriction bypassing
C/ Nearly Max levels : full casters.
Those ideas below are aimed mainly at C, sometimes B.


Bard Tweaks
-----------
Bards get the same 3 additional feats like sorcerers.
Bard spellcasting get the same ER scaling (up to 5) and ER 5% CL and other spellcasting DC calulations as other spellcasters to determine bard caster level
(notice that I do not request that BARD 15 would open Arcane Purist, so no epic uber damage and so on)


Bladesinger Tweaks
------------------
- Bladesong Style: When wielding a longsword or rapier OR SCIMITAR in one hand (and nothing in the other), a bladesinger gains a dodge bonus to Armor Class equal to her class level,
up to a maximum of her Intelligence (OR CHARISMA, WHICHEVER IS THE HIGHEST) bonus.

- The bladesinger also gains an attack bonus equals to the difference between his intelligence modifer (OR CHARISMA, WHICHEVER IS THE HIGHEST) and his strength or dexterity modifier (with weapon fitness and rapier). This attack bonus is capped by half of his bladesinger level.

- Song of Celerity: Replaced by : BLADESINGER GETS SNOWFLAKE WARDANCER FEAT


Lyric Thaumaturge Tweaks
------------------------
- Partial Sonic Immaterialization: From level 5 and then on, the lyric thaumathurge's sonic spells ignore 1/3 of the damage immunity of its targets.
Replaced by : From level 5 and then on, the lyric thaumathurge's sonic spells ignore 1/3 of the damage immunity of its targets. At level 10, All Sonic immunity is ignored (like frost mage), including the songs.

=> Heavy investment in that PRC should be worth it.


Stormsinger Tweaks
------------------
- Gust of Wind: Her caster level is equal to her ranks in Perform, with a maximum caster level of 30th.
Replaced by : Her caster level is equal to the bard caster level.

- Thunderstrike: A Reflex save ...(DC10 + Perform/3 + CHA MODIFIER) halves the damage.

- Call Lightning: Her caster level is equal to her ranks in Perform, with a maximum caster level of 30th.
Replaced by : Her caster level is equal to the bard caster level.

- Winter's Ballad: Her caster level is equal to her ranks in Perform, with a maximum caster level of 30th.
Replaced by : Her caster level is equal to the bard caster level.

- Great Thunderstrike: A Reflex save (DC10 + stormsinger's class level + Cha modifier) halves the damage.
Replaced by : (DC10 + Perform/3 + CHA MODIFIER) halves the damage.
If the creature fails its Reflex save, it must make a Fortitude save (same DC) or take an additional 2d6 (REPLACED BY : 1D6 per Bard caster level) points of sonic damage and be permanently deafened.

- Storm of Vengeance: (DC 10 + stormsinger's class level + Cha modifier).
Replaced by : (DC10 + Perform/3 + CHA MODIFIER)
Her caster level is equal to her ranks in Perform, with a maximum caster level of 35th
Replaced by : Her caster level is equal to the bard caster level.


Bard Spell tweaks
-------------------

Notice that I have proposed a change only for bard spells only, with the exception of sound burst. I also remove any reference to ERs, as I request them to be included in CL calculation (see above)

Balagarn's Iron Horn Yes Caster Level(s): Bard 1, Wizard / Sorcerer 2
(The spell has an effective Strength of 20 + 3 for every Epic Relevel attained).
replaced by : (the spell has an effective Strength of CASTER LEVEL).

Blur Yes Caster Level(s): Bard 2
The subject GETS 25% CONCEALMENT

Burning Pitch Yes Caster Level(s): Bard 3
Creatures also take CASTER LEVELS * 1d6 in fire damage, half if they pass their saving throw.

Dirge Yes Caster Level(s): Bard 6
Spell Resistance: Yes
Replaced by : Spell Resistance : NO
All enemies in the area of effect suffer 2 points of Strength and Dexterity damage each round.
Replaced by : suffer CASTER LEVEL / 5 points of Strength and Dexterity damage each round.

Joyful Noise No Caster Level(s): Bard 1
Duration: 60 seconds
Replaced by : 1 mn per CL

Mass Blindness Yes Caster Level(s): Bard 6
Spell Resistance: Yes
Replaced by : Spell Resistance: NO

Nixie's Grace Yes Caster Level(s): Bard 6
You also gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Dexterity, a +2 enhancement bonus to Wisdom, and a +8 enhancement bonus to Charisma.
Replaced by : +6 enhancement bonus to Dexterity, a +2 enhancement bonus to Wisdom, and a +12 enhancement bonus to Charisma

Resonating Bolt Yes Caster Level(s): Bard 4
Spell Resistance: Yes
Replaced by : Spell Resistance: NO
The bolt of sonic energy deals 1d8 points of sonic damage per caster level to each creature within its area. You gain a bonus of 45 sonic damage for every Epic Relevel attained.
Replaced by : 1D8 sonic damage per CL

Sonic Shield Yes Caster Level(s): Bard 3
Duration: 1 round/level
Replaced by : 1 min /Level
This spell grants you a +4 deflection bonus to AC. In addition, anyone who successfully hits you with an attack takes 1d8 sonic damage.
Replaced by :
This spell grants you a +4 SHIELD bonus to AC.1 sonic damage per level

Sound Burst Yes Caster Level(s): Bard 2, Cleric 2
All creatures within the area of effect take 1d8 points of sonic damage per caster level ( 20d8 max ) and must make a Fortitude save or be stunned for 2 rounds. You gain 25 points of sonic damage for each Epic Relevel attained.
Replaced by : Bards 1D8 sonic damage per caster level.... and Bards are not capped.

Sympathetic Vibrations Yes Caster Level(s): Bard 6
Spell Resistance: Yes
Replaced by : Spell Resistance: NO
You deal 1d6 + 4 per Caster Level in sonic damage with a bonus of 40 per Epic Relevel.
Replaced by : You deal 1d10 per Caster Level in sonic damage

War Cry No Caster Level(s): Bard 4
Duration: 6 seconds / Level
Replaced by : 1min / CASTER LEVEL
Last edited by Samyx on Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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