Roguish Marksman build

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Posts: 54

Roguish Marksman build

Post#1 » Wed May 31, 2017 2:38 pm

Build here: (Dash = Elusive Archery)

I'm not sure if I'm on the right track with this concept. I wanted to combine true Rogue levels (for trap disarming, universal item access, and Epic Dodge) with other classes to be solo-viable in combat. I'm not sure Marksman and Ranger are good fits, but they seem to allow for a decent result... the problem is, I'm still new to Trinity, so I'm a bad judge of viability.

My calculations have AB at 78 (buffs up to 83) and AC at 90. These seem much lower than other builds, so I'm not sure they're good enough.

Any suggestions or general advice are welcome!

Posts: 734

Re: Roguish Marksman build

Post#2 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:26 am

Took a look at the build:

Some general comments:
1) Rogues and archery don't really go great together as a) Finishing blow feat does not work with ranged, b) Getting ranged sneak attacks to work requires you to be really close and c) Sneak attack damage is not multiplied by manyshot.

2) If you really want to build an archer than can use any item and also disable traps, a Bard with a rouge or nightsong infiltrator dip would also work (Bards also get to use any item at 17 "true bard" levels). There is an assassin specific hat that you can equip that gives a flat 8d6 sneak damage (does not stack with rogue sneak attack) and huge stealth bonuses along with a +14 armor assassin robe.

Build specific comments:
1) Feats that are not too useful:
Able learner - almost all your class skills are easily raiseable without it
Epic damage reduction - You get about equal DR just from gear
Extend spell - Not necessary for ranger spells
One Shot - Actually kind of underwhelming

2) AB improvements:
+1 Expert Tactician
+4 G. Heroism (potions/items that cast it multiple times a day are fairly common)

3) AC improvements:
Minor build changes/gear
+1 Luck of Heroes
+5 Armor Skin I-III
+4 Shield Spell (Brooch of Shielding)
+1 Practiced Caster: Ranger (CL24 Barkskin gives +13 Natural. Additional +1 AC/3CL)
+1 Insignia of Warding (Ranger spell)
+2 Assassin Robe (Drow castle, +14 armor)
+1 Deflection (Several items have +13 deflection)

Require significant changes:
+4 going Deep Gnome (+3 racial, +1 size)
+6-+10 Monk dipping (Pump Dex + Wis)
+5 Elemental archer (Elemental Shield)
+4-+5 Fist of the Forest dipping

Posts: 54

Re: Roguish Marksman build

Post#3 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:59 pm

I took another approach, and I like this one quite a bit: I could be flexible on the Deflect Arrows front, which would get me 3 feats back that could be used for things like Epic Prowess, Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric), or Epic Toughness or more DR.

Any thoughts?

Posts: 734

Re: Roguish Marksman build

Post#4 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:37 pm

Don't think Shield Skin works with a longbow.

How about this?

Monk dipping for Wis to AC, Unarmed Strike and saves you on Armor Skin II, III and elusive archery (they don't work with monk) while keeping similar AC.

Ranger can cast Wild Instincts for uncanny dodge.

Note: Contrary to the feat description, Ranger HIPS works even indoors

Monkey Grip allows gnomes to use longbows on this server.

You can thus race swap, at the cost of 1 feat, 1 AB and a 20% XP penalty, to gain up to 5 AC.

If you give up the trap disabling and ED/Conceal, you could build to a purely offensive archer, something like Ranger21/MM13/Elemental A 5/Monk1 for Bane of Enemies (+20 unresistable magic damage against favored enemies on this server) and EA bonuses to AB, AC and damage.

Posts: 54

Re: Roguish Marksman build

Post#5 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:20 am

I really like what the Monk dip does for the build! I had seen the Uncanny Dodge from the Ranger spell, but figured that having an undispellable option would always be preferable.

Does Steadfast Determination force the use of Con instead of Wis for Will saves, even if Wis is higher? By giving up Steadfast Determination and Epic Weapon Specialization, I found that I could get Epic Toughness and Epic Resilience so that all of the saves are protected from critical failure. (The builder shows this giving a higher Will save too, but as I mentioned, I'm not sure if that's a builder flaw or a limitation of the feat.)

XP Penalty is a dealbreaker for me, since I'm still new enough that I don't have any banked XP or shards to use to help push past that. That's cool about Monkey Grip for Gnomes, though! Are Halflings also able to use Longbows if they have Monkey Grip, or just Gnomes?

Posts: 734

Re: Roguish Marksman build

Post#6 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:09 am

Not sure about that, but most saves here are pretty binary - either DC is too low that you'll only fail on a 1 or DCs are so high you fail on anything but a 20. Steadfast is mainly to prevent instant death when spammed with low DC fort saves more than anything else.

You really don't want to drop epic weapon spec. It's modded here to give a huge damage boost compared to the original game.

Runeword on bow (S-M-D) adds 15 AB and keen onto a longbow.

Think monkey grip for longbows works for halflings too, but their racials are inferior to Yuan-ti and Deep Gnomes.

Also, a brooch of shielding is a fairly common item that casts the level 1 wizard Shield spell 3x/day. It lasts 5 min per cast and gives +4 shield AC. Alternatively, wear a paladin or BG set cloak and hat (only need appropriate alignment) for a passive +5 shield AC bonus.

Posts: 804

Re: Roguish Marksman build

Post#7 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:30 pm

kc2345 wrote:Also, a brooch of shielding is a fairly common item that casts the level 1 wizard Shield spell 3x/day. It lasts 5 min per cast and gives +4 shield AC. Alternatively, wear a paladin or BG set cloak and hat (only need appropriate alignment) for a passive +5 shield AC bonus.

You can buy the Brooch in Asyria at one of the traders outside. If memory serves me right, the price is just over 161k gold ;)

Posts: 590

Re: Roguish Marksman build

Post#8 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:12 am

Steadfast will not force you to use your CON if your WIS is higher.

If you have already looked into the customized trap system here feel free to ignore the rest.

Rogue-types are also able to make great use of traps offensively on this server. The trap system has been revamped to be quite useful, specifics found here:

Combined with custom feat "extraordinary competence" that rogues (and thugs, to a slightly less useful extent) get, rogues can get very high DC's and reasonable damage on their traps.

I've found the sonic traps to be incredibly useful against stunnable enemies, I seem to recall that the trap DC is subject to ER bonuses so you can acheive massive DC's on your traps, up to 97 on the easily purchaseable and stackable "strong" traps. If I'm wrong it's still a very solid 78 if you've maxed your trap skills.

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