Proposed Changes - Healing Spells

Developers, want feedback? Ask the players here.
Brumm
Posts: 2228

Re: Proposed Changes - Healing Spells

Post#11 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:27 am

Details about the upcoming changes in my commit logs: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1889&p=39677#p39677

Please check how the new formula/range works and use this thread for feedback.
Thanks!

Zippy_Zaboo
Posts: 32

Re: Proposed Changes - Healing Spells

Post#12 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:22 pm

I think feat balance is not ideal? If you spend 3 skills on perfecting something you should get an increasing bonus as you invest more in your specialty.


I.e. maybe perhaps

-Skill Focus adds 10%
-Epic Skill focus adds a stacking 15%
-Augment adds 10%
-If you have all three, you get an additional 5% stacking bonus.

I will try to test this week

Brumm
Posts: 2228

Re: Proposed Changes - Healing Spells

Post#13 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:49 am

Zippy_Zaboo wrote:I think feat balance is not ideal? If you spend 3 skills on perfecting something you should get an increasing bonus as you invest more in your specialty.


I.e. maybe perhaps

-Skill Focus adds 10%
-Epic Skill focus adds a stacking 15%
-Augment adds 10%
-If you have all three, you get an additional 5% stacking bonus.

I will try to test this week


I like that idea

Brumm
Posts: 2228

Re: Proposed Changes - Healing Spells

Post#14 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:27 pm

I updated the Heal spells. Please check my commit logs for details.

One thing I would like to mention though: We now have an insane range on our Mass Heal spells and the same range is used for the damage component against undead. That is quite OP imho but for performance reasons I don't want to run the spells with two different ranges at the same time. Please test the range and give me your honest opinion if you think we can reduce the range a little bit to balance things out a bit (and to reduce the performance impact).

Edit:
Current Radius - 25.0 meters
Meteor Swarm (Creature) - 12.191 meters
Meteor Swarm (Location) - 18.288 meters
Storm of Vengeance - 10.0 meters
Icestorm - 6.0 meters
Last edited by Brumm on Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

addict-ant
Posts: 684

Re: Proposed Changes - Healing Spells

Post#15 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:39 pm

I think a radius like meteor swarm for healing - seems pretty big to me...

EDIT - thanks for the no's Brumm, make it 15m and see how we go?
Image

Chemic_al
Posts: 98

Re: Proposed Changes - Healing Spells

Post#16 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:58 pm

I don't see anything here that is going to make a cleric healer any good - healing domain (free empower cure to critical, but oddly not mass) is going to do nothing, spell book management vs spamming mass heal on favoured soul with all the other advantages of high charisma. Without a significant boon for clerics to bother with all the downsides why wouldn't you just make a fav soul?

Also if you're stupid enough to make an eldritch disciple (fav soul better than cleric again), good luck healing 250 / round with Turn Undead uses.

Inflict spells add Mass Harm? Would be nice for an undead minion if they worked on them... (since I understand companions are undergoing review as well).

Last thought is Epic Mass Heal affected by any of this?

FFF
Posts: 34

Re: Proposed Changes - Healing Spells

Post#17 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:39 pm

Zippy_Zaboo wrote:I think feat balance is not ideal? If you spend 3 skills on perfecting something you should get an increasing bonus as you invest more in your specialty.


I.e. maybe perhaps

-Skill Focus adds 10%
-Epic Skill focus adds a stacking 15%
-Augment adds 10%
-If you have all three, you get an additional 5% stacking bonus.

I will try to test this week

You are totally wrong.
Healer Invest A LOT into healing specialization:
1) AQ 0-9 - 10 feats already. It's not helping to deal damage as melee at all, FS as offensive caster is not great even with all feats.
2) We should use a gear with high heal/concentration for healing, so sacrifice our own HP/regen when choose items (example: ring with 50 hp 10 regen and +2 heal/concentration vs ring 15 hp 3 regen and +8 heal/concentration)
3) Waste a lot of feats to survive better, because it's very important to keep healer alive.
And you want to invest 3 more feats for healing. Character will be absolutely useless for solo. It was really hard for me to invest 1 more feat, I drop weapon fineese(-12 AB), another 2 - drop emp&max both?
Try to play as a healer by yourself before making posts like this.

kc2345
Posts: 697

Re: Proposed Changes - Healing Spells

Post#18 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:32 pm

Maybe a long range heal with a 15m radius that ignores LOS? The reduced radius and increased range allow it to be used more tactically.

Imo, FS/Clerics really need more viable offensive spellcasting options so investing in Autoquickens doesn't feel so wasteful. I believe Brumm will look into making the Inflict/Harm line of spells suck less. I have also identified an issue with spell DC calculations that, if fixed, would help FS set user casters gain a significant DC boost on Hammer of the Gods.
https://www.realmsoftrinity.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=5273

@Chemic_al
Perhaps propose changing Healing Domain to grant the Augment Healing Feat, and granting all (Mass) Cure X Wounds/Heal at 1 spell level lower?

e.g. Mass Heal as a Level 8 Domain spell, Mass Cure Critical as a level 7 etc. This is not as OP as it may seem, as the Cleric has to actually memorize the healing spell to benefit from the lower spell level. Using Spontaneous Conversion will still cast at default spell level.

@FFF
How necessary are the feats really? With 0 feats but max Heal/CL, Cure Light does 375 while Heal does 700.

+10% at 1 feat boosts it to 412/770. +25% with 2 feats is 468/875, and +40% would be 525/980.

As player HP typically hovers around the 1.1k HP mark at 40, it seems to me that getting all 3 feats is nice to have, but hardly strictly necessary.

If you go back and re-read your original formula in an earlier post, the non-feat baselines are already matching or exceed the numbers you originally proposed. (250 Light/700 Heal)
Image

FFF
Posts: 34

Re: Proposed Changes - Healing Spells

Post#19 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:38 am

kc2345 wrote:If you go back and re-read your original formula in an earlier post, the non-feat baselines are already matching or exceed the numbers you originally proposed. (250 Light/700 Heal)

Question is not about how much healing is enough, I don't want to be worse healer than someone else.

My character was created to be unique hipsing healer that can't die without lags and keep healing with the best heal exist.

I was thinking about unique character build 2-3 weeks, drop hundreds of other ideas and create first character with this feature, I didn't see any players that was playing stealth healer. And it worked!

Now all of that is going to trash, the best option is to make new character without hips, my idea is dead, killed by nerf. And it's so sad for me - impossible to tell how much.

kc2345
Posts: 697

Re: Proposed Changes - Healing Spells

Post#20 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:09 am

I honestly don't see how your stealth healer idea is "going to trash". Your build is already heavily min-maxed, so any build that beats yours in some way will definitely lose out in another.

For example, any healer that can heal for bigger numbers than you will still have to spend 10 feats on AQ, and another 3 for healing-specific feats.

This means that the other healer has to give up something else that you have. Either lose HiPS entirely and reduce survivability vs your build, lose offensive casting purist feats and lose damage output and DCs, or use gear with feats and lose multiple spellslots.

So, there cannot exist a different build that is superior to yours in every way. They may be better in some aspects, but in return, will fare worse in others. This is already true when you compare yourself with non-HiPs FS healers.

The only possible exception is if heals at baseline are now so bad that you NEED to spend the feats to do your job properly, breaking your build. I doubt that this is the case given the numbers in the formula.

Also, healing isn't a competition. Your max healing is capped by a target's HP. A healer that takes all the feats and maxes everything will be able to heal for huge numbers, but a lot of it will be wasted overhealing anyway owing to typical player HP being small relative to the amounts healed.
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