PROPOSED CHANGE: Animal Companion

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Lady Seline
Posts: 36

Re: PROPOSED CHANGE: Animal Companion

Post#21 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:18 am

Need to make sure elemental pets do some form of relavant physical damage too, or anything with Elemental immunity is gonna suck. Even if its just 1D8 bludgeoning from air or water pressure or physical impact on air, weater and earth.

PS dont do this. Poor Yurei in LLCO tried to face tank a fire elemental heroicly cos her feats gave her Fire 9/- DR and she died to its PHYSICAL damage component. :cry:
Last edited by Lady Seline on Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

Lady Seline
Posts: 36

Re: PROPOSED CHANGE: Animal Companion

Post#22 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:22 am

I saw Wolf has Improved KD as its thing, but since this is an opposed str check I see this being possibly ineffective. Am I correct?

Brownyman
Posts: 242

Re: PROPOSED CHANGE: Animal Companion

Post#23 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:36 am

I'm liking all the suggestions for animal boosts, looks good so far.
Itching to test one!!! :D
Other ideas ive had -
Is it possible to make the Wildshape buff feats apply to your companion as well as yourself? I'm thinking of Elemental essence and toxic gift, that way you could choose your elemental damage type for certain situations. Am i correct in thinking these damage boosts work like a scripted set bonus anyway and ignore immunities?

And regarding the feat Shared Fury - Splitting classes like Druid/Shamn/Barb/ FB never really works. How about making shared fury basically a Barbarian/Fb version of Devoted tracker.

Your Barbarian or FB levels count for the purpose of determining your animal companion's level (at Barb/FB level - 4). Your companion also gains Dash, Improved Evasion, and a +2 dodge AC bonus. If you have 15 levels or more of Barbarian/FB then your companion gains Spell Resistance equal to 5 + it's hit dice. Your effective Druid companion level is equal to any druid levels plus Ranger - 3, Paladin - 4, and any Lion of Talisid levels. It can be further modified with the Natural Bond and Epic Animal Companion feats. This feat will also work for the Telthor Companion feat (stacking full Spirit Shaman levels and Paladin - 4 levels).

Just an idea as i hate feats which are in game but worthless!!!
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kc2345
Posts: 644

Re: PROPOSED CHANGE: Animal Companion

Post#24 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:53 pm

Just had a thought:

Wouldn't the animal companion scaling formulae I proposed or the existing Mirror Golem scaling code make sense for summon spells? They're currently brokenly weak as they have no caster level scaling whatsoever.

Level 9 Summons like Summon Creature IX, Gate, Phantom Bear would summon creatures that are roughly equivalent to a Mirror Golem without any mastery (Elemental Swarm summons a reusable bunch of level 8s)

Each level below that produces summons that are 5% lower in stats, so level 8 summons are 95% as strong, all the way down to level 1 summons that have 60% of the stats of a level 9 summon. Epic Gate could work as a level 10 summon.

The Augment Summoning feat could be modded from its currently useless incarnation to a 5% summon boost that also applies to the Mirror Golem.

If a druid/SS caster can have a viable use of their summon slot, tying animal companion power to the Mirror Golem's power level is no longer as important.

This could be further extended to the Warlock, FS, Hexblade set summons, using the relevant caster level as the scaling modifier.

Death Domain Avatar, Shadowdancer Shadow, and Blackguard servant (Shadow and Blackguard servant scales to (4 x SD/BG level) x ER bonus, up to maximum of character level as they're a 10 level classes) could also be scaled in this manner.
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Brownyman
Posts: 242

Re: PROPOSED CHANGE: Animal Companion

Post#25 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:28 am

yes please to a shiny animal companion rod!!

I guess my in game name is Brownyman? lol might be Brownyman100 though!
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kc2345
Posts: 644

Re: PROPOSED CHANGE: Animal Companion

Post#26 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:12 am

A rod to my account would be nice too.

Same as forumID.
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Valariax
Posts: 425

Re: PROPOSED CHANGE: Animal Companion

Post#27 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:14 am

Lady Seline wrote:OH!
OH!
While we're fixing Divine companions, can we fix class based summons too?
Use the same "balancing" formula for pale master three undead summon class abilities?
Blackguard have a hellhound...
Oh, and Shadow Dancers have a summoned shadow....
And the last one I can think of... Death domain cleric's shadow?

I Agree!

Sometime after the divine companions are completed and fully tested, I suggest reworking the companions gained from the wish shard feat Epic Grandstand (the Port Authority Captains and Trinity Royal Guards). Their greatest problems seem to be level-limited, too low AC and slow regeneration rate for RoT III and end-game areas.

Also consider revamping the gribblies of the Hellfire Warlock's Summon Baatezu class-based feat. Perhaps make them scalable versions of the Minotaur summon from the Robes of Eternal Darkness that turns on the warlock when the summon duration ends (like the minotaur does if you summon another creature, if you want that type of mechanic). Perhaps the summon duration could be extended based on CHA like the Divine Shield duration.
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DM - Maëlys

Valariax
Posts: 425

Re: PROPOSED CHANGE: Animal Companion

Post#28 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:51 am

By the way, is the Hexblade's Hound of Doom an animal companion or a familiar? It doesn't dispel when resting, so it doesn't behave like a summoned creature. Hexblades have a level 1 spell called "Augment Familiar" that slightly boosts the Hound's abilities, but using scrolls of the 5th level Druid spell "Awaken" (which states it specifically targets animal companions) also work on the Hound.

I think the Hound of Doom is mostly like a wolf but larger. So should it be made slightly stronger like the badger or dinosaur recommendations? Also, is there a way to scale the Hexblade's "Augment Familiar" spell based on caster level that would achieve greater increases over the base form?

It's purpose seems to be to pull aggro to keep the adversaries busy so that the Hexblade can cast all of the debuffs before wading into melee.


Thoughts?
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DM - Chronicle
DM - Maëlys

konst3d
Posts: 591

Re: PROPOSED CHANGE: Animal Companion

Post#29 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:21 am

Valariax wrote:
Lady Seline wrote:Also consider revamping the gribblies of the Hellfire Warlock's Summon Baatezu class-based feat. Perhaps make them scalable versions of the Minotaur summon from the Robes of Eternal Darkness that turns on the warlock when the summon duration ends (like the minotaur does if you summon another creature, if you want that type of mechanic). Perhaps the summon duration could be extended based on CHA like the Divine Shield duration.

I would like to suggest to give a regular, loyal summon to HW. Base class and prc are pretty weak anyway, and hostile EX6 mino will just trample down it's former master into dirt.
I'd also suggest to give a ranged companion - so to allow to use it in parties. Maybe an AI controlled vampire warlock?
Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

kc2345
Posts: 644

Re: PROPOSED CHANGE: Animal Companion

Post#30 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:20 am

With the rod, I summoned a CL40 bear on my Sorcerer and used it in parallel with his CL 52 Mirrorgolem (Mastery III)

Some stats:
Level 40 Bear has (unbuffed) 4,760 HP, 104 AC, 104 AB, 30% Immunity all, no passive Regeneration whatsoever.

Has Improved Critical, Weapon Specialization with the creature weapons, but these feats seem to have no effect. Animalistic Power increases AC to 110 by pumping Dex, and this can be increased to 113 or so with Druid dodge buffing spells.

A CL 52 Mirror Golem in contrast has 3,350 HP, 128 AC, 116 AB, 30% Immunity all, 80 Regeneration and 60% conceal.

Tested on EX3 Lions (115 AB) in smuggler's. Bear gets badly beaten up, but Mirrorgolem barely gets scratched.

Testing on Thumper (14 AC, no immunity) had the bear pegged at 2.2 K DPR and the Golem at 1.25 K DPR. As both companions hit for similar numbers on a per-blow basis, the Bear is clearly getting some extra attacks from multiattack that the Mirror Golem is not. This might be a problem when balancing the different companions, as different creatures have different multiattack patterns, and nobody seems to know exactly what companion gets how many attacks. Would recommend dropping the multiattack feat for this reason.

AB from both pets is far too high. A target unbuffed AB of 100 for the Mirror Golem and 90 or so for the Bear would put them more in line with player characters.

Toughness wise, the Mirrorgolem is ridiculously tough due to the combination of solid HP, decent regen, insane AC, targeted magic immunity, and 60% conceal. The bear takes a huge beating as it lacks any conceal and suffers a much lower AC. Without passive regen of any sort, the bear absolutely needs a regeneration spell to keep alive. This spell gives it 476 hp/6s at base.

Suggestions: Lower the bear's HP to 3.4k, but give the bear passive regeneration set at 4% of it's HP (136/round at 40). Casting Regeneration on this bear yields (136 + 340 = 476) hp/round, identical to the current incarnation with regeneration. The passive component makes a bear companion not utterly useless for a ranger. An additional Vamp regen of 1 per 4 levels (max 10) on its attacks could also be considered to make up for the HP loss.

AC wise, a slight buff of +5 or so on the Bear (109 base, 118 full buffed - maybe via Armor Skin III?) and a nerf for the Mirrorgolem (118 at CL50?) would put them more in line.

Nerf Mirrorgolem conceal to 50%, lower AC as stated above, and lower HP to 2.5k or so while keeping Regen at 80. This makes it weaker than the bear in toughness, as it should be.

Bear has fairly awful saves at 33/35/14. A +12 saves buff pushes this to 45/47/26, which is still too low vs most content. Would suggest increasing saves by somewhere between +10 to +20 all to keep it in line with 40 players.

Bear also lacks death, mind, KD, Uncanny, Evasion, and level/stat drain immunity, which limits its applications in combat.

On death, the golem/bear spawn a loot bag with 3x Universal Immunity shards. They disappear on player pickup (curses!), but you might want to make it so it doesn't drop the items at all.
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