Mana System

Developers, want feedback? Ask the players here.

Poll: Are you fine with a small Mana Cost on Teleport?

Poll ended at Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:10 am

No.
3
18%
No, and I don't like the whole Mana idea in general.
3
18%
Yes, 1 Mana sounds reasonable.
5
29%
Yes, 2 Mana sounds reasonable.
6
35%
Total votes: 17

Brumm
Posts: 2339

Re: Mana System

Post#11 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:29 am

fox wrote:Can we work on summons , rp reward summons, spell summons. Like its here in game but doesnt work very well.


In combination with the Mana System? I am not sure if I understand what you mean.

fox
Posts: 145

Re: Mana System

Post#12 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:42 pm

INStead of making new things, be nice if existing worked. Mana has never been part of D&D that I remember. I vote no.

Brumm
Posts: 2339

Re: Mana System

Post#13 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:55 am

I am not really a fan of summons and henchmen for NWN2 because they are taking a LOT of server resources. That's why I never made much on the summon side and stopped the idea of creating a beastmaster class (even if I personally totally like the concept). The performance hit we take from many summons/henchmen on the server is simply not worth it. Playing with summons and lags is always worse than playing without both in my humble opinion.

But besides of that I totally agree with you that we should improve existing things first before we roll out new stuff. But improving existing things is something I do at least 50% of the time I spend for ROT. It's just something players won't notice neccesarily because at least in the past months I just made old code more efficient which pays off in the long run but is not noticeable immediately.

Anyways. If you have something specific - besides of summons - that needs an improvement, I am all ears.

Chemic_al
Posts: 100

Re: Mana System

Post#14 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:44 am

Well without things like summons being addressed, it obsoletes classes like druid to it's arguably better spirit shaman cousin. And it's quite an odd objection when golems, minotaurs, beholders, epic grandstand etc all being added so it's literally summons for all whilst this glaring deficiency goes unaddressed. I know there are technical reasons behind it but if the Trinity team have proved anything they are quite capable of overcoming the limitations of the core NWN2 engine.

With regards to mana, how does this in any way improve the gameplay experience? If the idea is to stop teleport spam put a 30s timer on it.

It's not a DnD mechanic and honestly I think if I were to focus on anything it would be making a whole host of unused classes worth taking again.

MortisCorpus
Posts: 1557

Re: Mana System

Post#15 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:53 am

Regardless of how the discussion turns out I am not done working on a few remaining angles for ways to fix Druid shifters.

The todo list is long these days:
1. Generic Set Inclusions (Rogue, Barbarian, Warlock)
2. Spell Rework (Divine, Invoker)
3. Random item generator:
-tweaks
-realm wide install
4. Brumms AI installation
5. Vault of Doom rectified
6. Gnarl Curl completion

There is always time for cool new ideas/stuff and staff help requests as well. I say if the idea suits a desire to create and brings a sense of fulfillment, do it. The reason I keep a list is to avoid stagnant periods and creative deficits. We will get to it...
Administrator, Dungeon Master

Brumm
Posts: 2339

Re: Mana System

Post#16 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:17 pm

Chemic_al wrote:Well without things like summons being addressed, it obsoletes classes like druid to it's arguably better spirit shaman cousin. And it's quite an odd objection when golems, minotaurs, beholders, epic grandstand etc all being added so it's literally summons for all whilst this glaring deficiency goes unaddressed. I know there are technical reasons behind it but if the Trinity team have proved anything they are quite capable of overcoming the limitations of the core NWN2 engine.

With regards to mana, how does this in any way improve the gameplay experience? If the idea is to stop teleport spam put a 30s timer on it.

It's not a DnD mechanic and honestly I think if I were to focus on anything it would be making a whole host of unused classes worth taking again.


1.
Even if we were able to cirumvent many engine limitations in the past we won't be able to reduce the performance impact many summons on the server would cause. Though, making the anmial companion worthwhile is something we can consider. No objections against that.

2.
No, it is not just about limiting Teleport spam. I explained the reasons.

3.
How does it improve the gameplay? We would be able to add a new facet to the game with several new item properties which would give us the chance to bring some new flavor to the game.

4.
You would focus on making least played classes better? I underestand that. But you are forgetting that none of the developers of ROT gets payed for what they do. In fact most of them are even donaters to support Trinity next to the work they are doing for free. As a trade for that developers have a pretty free hand on what they want to work on and what not (as long as it is unproblematic from a technical and a balancing point of view). So even if your suggestions are always welcome, you still need to find a developer who is willing to spend his freetime on it.

So this post is nothing else than the information that I would be willing to make something like a Mana system happen if people would like to see it. And I would write the infrastructure for upcoming custom item properties so that other developers could reuse it.

Brumm

fox
Posts: 145

Re: Mana System

Post#17 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:48 pm

I was just hoping for some better scaling on my RP reward guards. After 100k rp xp, I don't have much to show for it, though I like the Dwarven king of Old, just wish he was tougher. And then as another example Shadow Dancers and others classes get as a perk summon but they dont scale up.

Lomir
Posts: 241

Re: Mana System

Post#18 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:04 pm

I consider the minion from the RP reward to be just a side benefit. I play with RP on a lot (when playing with people), and the fact that I get free exp for doing something I enjoy doing is completely worthwhile. As far as prestige classes getting minions that scale, I think that'd be pretty broken. The only way to make minions worthwhile for most classes is by taking multiple feats, and devoting yourself to the primary class associated with it, so letting you take 8-10 levels in a prestige class and get a minion on par with spending 30 levels in another class seems a bit off.

Chemic_al
Posts: 100

Re: Mana System

Post#19 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:42 am

New flavour to the game by adding a resource mechanic which is presumably there to place a finite limit on how often a particular spell is used - pretty much what a countdown timer can achieve with much more ease.

If the resource cost is too high, mana potions too expensive or drop so rarely then you might as well have just removed the spells as the spell(s) would hardly ever be used.

If the resource cost is too low, mana potions too frequent etc then you might as well have just left the system as is since there is no need to manage this mana resource.

My expectation is that over time, even after tweaking and (who's to say it will be right to start with?) people will accumulate the mana pots, and in essence will continue to spam the spells as before as they need not manage that resource any more - end result, alot of work that essentially changes nothing. (Much like wish shards, the long time players probably have more gold and wish shards than they need and mana pots would go the same way).

Honestly, I get the idea, but this is co-opted from other games designed with it at heart, and NWN2 just isn't.

fox
Posts: 145

Re: Mana System

Post#20 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:01 pm

Lomir wrote:I consider the minion from the RP reward to be just a side benefit. I play with RP on a lot (when playing with people), and the fact that I get free exp for doing something I enjoy doing is completely worthwhile. As far as prestige classes getting minions that scale, I think that'd be pretty broken. The only way to make minions worthwhile for most classes is by taking multiple feats, and devoting yourself to the primary class associated with it, so letting you take 8-10 levels in a prestige class and get a minion on par with spending 30 levels in another class seems a bit off.



Grandpa!

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