CANCELLED - RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

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Cervantes
Posts: 635

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#51 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:42 am

I think the crux of this argument is that easy mode was supposed to help people learn the server, not help people min-max the end game. It's currently not doing what it was designed to do - in fact, it's doing the opposite. Instead of making an easy mode character to learn the server, then rebuilding normal for a long-term character, people are making normal mode characters to learn the server (probably because our population is so generous with gear,) and then making easy mode characters for the long haul in order to make crazy builds for the end game content.

And the notion that a normal mode character is 'penalized' by not getting 5 bonus stat points is exactly the problem - some have started to perceive those 5 extra stat points as 'normal' instead of what they were supposed to be - a crutch to help learn a server which had at one point (and still does, in places) some very wacky difficulty spikes.

Honestly, with all the recent balancing of AB/AC of the monsters, and with all the thought that has gone into the new end-game content, and with the recent halving of requirements for levels after 30 ((which essentially halves the penalty for easy mode, without changing the bonus,)) I'm in the 'do away with easy mode' camp. Or at least, do away with the bonus stat points OR keep the creation stat points, but give none when the player reaches ER1. Essentially erase easy mode for a character when they reach ER1 - no bonuses, no penalties. Easy mode was meant to make the early game easier, not to boost the late-game.
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Cataca
Posts: 307

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#52 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:49 am

Volkier wrote:
Sylvvar wrote:A quick question: If the stat points are not grandfathered on existing characters, will there be a free rebuild (from scratch) available for characters who become 'broken' due to it? By broken I mean instances like characters losing access to critical build feats because they no longer meet the requirements without the extra stats.

Volkier: Correct me if I'm wrong but I think easy mode characters get full experience from kills and quests, the only instance where they have a 50% exp penalty is when you apply banked exp to the character, which only comes out to be about 10% of your total exp earned by level 40?


Well pretty much all of the experience in the third campaign comes from being banked. Which is well over a mil. In the grand scheme of things, I guess for a level 40 it's not huge, but point remains that when you compare two new players side by side, the 'normal' would have an advantage when it matters (ie. during that third campaign, where giving you that extra ER or 2 is a huge advantage). Plus all the passive banked exp, and remakes of fail builds (though fair enough, that's not quite anybody's problem but the person remaking characters :P)



A. The banked xp from the second and third campaign comes down to 200-300k.
B. Going easymode or not is always a choice. The reward is the 5 statpoints, the price is 50% banked xp.

I spent some 20 million xp on easymode characters, well knowing that only half its xp is going to apply. I did so, because i had my 5 statpoints. I knew it was going to be a harder grind, but in the end, i was okay with that for a more powerful character.

We all knew what we were signing up for, we got what we paid for. I dont think there is any need for aditional reward, because the reward was the 5 extra stats while playing.

edit: and for reference, my main is an easymode toon i leveld to 40 when the xp requirements to do so were twice as high as they are now. I still dont feel like i deserve anything for that.

Itaasi
Posts: 801

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#53 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:44 am

Cataca wrote:A. The banked xp from the second and third campaign comes down to 200-300k.

It was buffed a lot recently, so this is VERY untrue at the moment.

Brumm
Posts: 2224

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#54 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:50 am

While we reduced the amount of needed XP for lvl 40 by 14.000.0000.

Cataca
Posts: 307

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#55 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:42 am

Itaasi wrote:
Cataca wrote:A. The banked xp from the second and third campaign comes down to 200-300k.

It was buffed a lot recently, so this is VERY untrue at the moment.


I recently ran through v3 on a toon, and i cannot reacall ever getting more than 25k per quest. At most i'd have gotten 500k.

Lomir
Posts: 241

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#56 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:29 am

Going from 2.1 -3.18 is actually a solid million or so banked exp currently. While the majority of the quests don't give a lot of banked exp, there are a few specific ones that net 50k-150k (I believe that's what you get for 3.18 at least). Note, I may be a little off in my numbers, but I have run a LOT of characters up, and the recent boost to banked exp is pretty reasonable (although this also includes the Daerlun, legendary, and West Slums side quests as well).

Cataca
Posts: 307

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#57 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:47 am

Even at a million xp, easymode still gives you a numerical xp advantage (at least for melee toons) of 500k xp -1,5kk xp depending on the relevel you are at because you reach the next "relevel" a relevel sooner than you would have with a normalmode toon.

Volkier
Posts: 15

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#58 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:07 am

Cataca wrote:Even at a million xp, easymode still gives you a numerical xp advantage (at least for melee toons) of 500k xp -1,5kk xp depending on the relevel you are at because you reach the next "relevel" a relevel sooner than you would have with a normalmode toon.


I'm confused - how are you relevel-ing sooner when you are getting half the banked experience? Normal toon would be getting full exp gain against half of the easymode. Or do you counting the first five stats as a relevel? Because they are pretty irrelevant since what makes ERs benefit the character are DCs, summons, hirelings etc. for a solo player with a first character. Maybe this isn't the case for someone who has played for a few years and is fully geared out, DCs and summons aren't as important - I wouldn't know.

Anyway - I've made my input. I feel it would be pretty dog towards the people who picked a more difficult/tedious path for the sake of a reward, by simply removing the reward without addressing the former. It seems that people who matter (ie. those who actually make these decisions) disagree and have a different opinion. So that's that. Life is meant to be unfair, and people are meant to have a variety of opinions that disagree. It would be boring if it wasn't :P

Cataca
Posts: 307

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#59 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:17 am

Or do you counting the first five stats as a relevel? Because they are pretty irrelevant since what makes ERs benefit the character are DCs, summons, hirelings etc.


I dont use hirelings, so i wouldnt know about those. (i think they are cheese)

But yes, i am strictly speaking about the stats. They affect your DC's and AB much more than the effects of the relevel. While you get a 5% increase in your final DC on every relevel, 5 statpoints are equivalent to at least a flat 2 DC, which then gets multiplied by your relevel modifier. As with all multipliers, they can be great or crap, depending on your base, but when everyone gets the same multiplier automatically, a bigger base is of much more importance.

This is also the case for flat damage boni on relevels/spells, because the difference between a made/failed save on mobs is equivalent to a 50% damage increase/decrease. Or a flat 2-3 AB on your hits, because that is an average of an aditional hit that lands for every second round of combat.

As someone who has played for a very long time, and played and deleted a countless number of toons (mostly easymode, because i do quirky hybrid builds and thats how they used to work) i can rightfully say that heaving or not heaving easymode matters on some builds to make them playable (but those are getting fixed), but for everyone else, it is just a base power increase for just spending more time on a toon. But, it does not do one thing: Make the toon harder to level.
More time intensive, for those of us that have millions of banked xp at their disposal (who are you, and can i please have some?). Wasteful, maybe. But harder? Nay.

http://nwn2-realms-of-trinity.wikia.com ... rogression

I had ER 3 stats on ER2, which means i saved a good 1,5kk xp
Then i had ER4 stats on ER 3, which is another 1,5kk
And then, i was overal more powerful. The gift that keeps on giving.


But, that is just my point of view.

konst3d
Posts: 620

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#60 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:18 am

So... what is the status of this change? Will it be deployed on live and when, or was it abandoned? Shall the players be informed before this change going live? Should I right now create a bunch of spare easy-mode characters to use for the rest of my life? :)
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