CANCELLED - RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

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Caylin
Posts: 413

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#41 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:01 pm

Personally I would like easy mode to stay as is. Its an advantage in the beginning and at 40 but in between its not and its available to all so no favorites are being played.

If that can´t happen how about letting easy mode only work til ER1 (or 2 or 3)?

The ER damage scaling effectively vanishes at ER1 anyway so maybe easymode characters could just not get stat points at ERx and the gp/xp whatever changes could disappear as well.

I feel that many of the custom Rot changes are only truely seen at ER3. ER2 on your first char opens up epic crafting and ER3 legendary materials. So if an easymode should help beginners then.

Another option would be to lower epic crafting to ER1 and remove all easymode benefits and negatives there. Then you have experienced all but the legendary materials.

If easymode stat bonus is removed I strongly feel that they should be removed from existing toons as well so newcomers don´t see a gap on toons they will never be able to bridge no matter what they do. Oldtimers will simply have more power and with rebuilding can effectively have most char types available with 5 extra stat points.

Caylin

IceLancer
Posts: 196

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#42 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:02 pm

Brumm wrote:
Volkier wrote:I completely agree, BUT it would be nice if Easymode Characters also got the massive chunks of experience they lost as a result of their choice. Considering "easymode" was specifically picked for the end-game characters, while accepting that getting there would be harder as a 'sacrifice' (since easymode characters effectively play at half the experience level of others, plus the 200k or so Experience you get in the first campaign).


We have no data about that so we don't know who lost XP because of easy mode.

And we wont reward people for picking easy mode when they were expected to pick the normal mode. Easy was intended to give you an easy start for your first character. We noticed pretty late that people abused this starting help to get an advantage.

Sorry Brumm.
But using peoples choice for something that is offered to choose and then calling them guilty because they used it is not fair.
As for question in matter i am neutral.
But i noticed that for some it is a witch hunt rather then discussion.

Brumm
Posts: 2136

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#43 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:42 pm

IceLancer wrote:But using peoples choice for something that is offered to choose and then calling them guilty because they used it is not fair.
As for question in matter i am neutral.
But i noticed that for some it is a witch hunt rather then discussion.


I didn't say someone is guilty or whatever. I just said we wont reward people by giving them free XP for having easy mode toons no matter if they really lost a significant amount of XP due the easy mode pick.

Edit: And yes, we will probably remove the easy mode stats from old characters. But all the easy mode stuff is not really high priority at the moment.

Volkier
Posts: 15

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#44 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:35 pm

Brumm wrote:
Volkier wrote:I completely agree, BUT it would be nice if Easymode Characters also got the massive chunks of experience they lost as a result of their choice. Considering "easymode" was specifically picked for the end-game characters, while accepting that getting there would be harder as a 'sacrifice' (since easymode characters effectively play at half the experience level of others, plus the 200k or so Experience you get in the first campaign).


We have no data about that so we don't know who lost XP because of easy mode.

And we wont reward people for picking easy mode when they were expected to pick the normal mode. Easy was intended to give you an easy start for your first character. We noticed pretty late that people abused this starting help to get an advantage.


Not quite sure how that works though. My impressions as a new player, was exactly as you said - "easymode is going to make the game easier". So the first character I made was "normal". Then after finishing the first campaign I found out that by picking "normal" I would actually be penalised with a weaker character at the end of the level cap. So I deleted the old character, and made an "easymode" character, primarily and only because of late-game gameplay. This was the same reason for every single person I've spoken to - not a single person picked "easymode" because they felt it was "easier".

As for the gameplay, early game the enemies would mostly be dying in one or two hits regardless of whether you have the five extra stats - hence easymode did not make an ounce of a difference. Late game on the other hand, because of the EXP penalty, easymode characters are significantly HARDER due to playing at half the experience level of non easymode characters. If two characters started from scratch, and spent the exact same amount of hours and got to the exact same part of the content towards late game, you would have an easymode character playing at ER1 or ER2 level, while the normal character would be simultaneously ER2 or ER4 in contrast. Your normal character is going to have a much "easier" time than the easymode character, who would experience a much "harder" level of gameplay for the same amount of time committed to the progression of their character.

This is the accepted and understood "penalty" for having the "reward" of the extra attribute points in the late game. Late game, simply because those five attributes are not important in the slightest in the early game. While I understand that this was not the intention of the mode, I don't see how anyone can deny that this is the current reality. I just don't feel it would be right or reasonable to penalise people who have made sacrifices for the sake of a certain reward, by simply taking that reward away without making up in some way for those sacrifices.

I also agree that - because of the above reality vs. intent, the system is somewhat flawed (which is why I'm guessing you would want to change it, and are taking suggestions on how to do so effectively), but that doesn't change the above point.

addict-ant
Posts: 662

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#45 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:21 am

I don't wish to carry on a debate if the decision has already been made but I have to say I echo what Volkier has said - that was certainly my impression and understanding of easy mode as a fairly new player.
Image

Sylvvar
Posts: 33

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#46 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:11 am

A quick question: If the stat points are not grandfathered on existing characters, will there be a free rebuild (from scratch) available for characters who become 'broken' due to it? By broken I mean instances like characters losing access to critical build feats because they no longer meet the requirements without the extra stats.

Volkier: Correct me if I'm wrong but I think easy mode characters get full experience from kills and quests, the only instance where they have a 50% exp penalty is when you apply banked exp to the character, which only comes out to be about 10% of your total exp earned by level 40?

Brumm
Posts: 2136

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#47 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:44 am

Sylvvar wrote:A quick question: If the stat points are not grandfathered on existing characters, will there be a free rebuild (from scratch) available for characters who become 'broken' due to it? By broken I mean instances like characters losing access to critical build feats because they no longer meet the requirements without the extra stats.

Volkier: Correct me if I'm wrong but I think easy mode characters get full experience from kills and quests, the only instance where they have a 50% exp penalty is when you apply banked exp to the character, which only comes out to be about 10% of your total exp earned by level 40?


The real drawback of having the an easy mode character is the the banked XP, yes. The slightly advantage per kill for normal mode characters is neglectable and ends with ER 4. So if you didn't apply banked XP to your easy mode character had nearly no disadvantage. Thanks for clarifying this, Sylvvar.

If we remove the easy mode stats we'll have a similar window like we have for taking the ER stats just that you need to remove 5 attribute points instead of adding 5 points so there shouldn't be a reason to relevel. If you need one though, you'll get the gold refunded of course.

Clangeddin_86
Posts: 52

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#48 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:02 am

I suppose I have to come clean here. My character was started on Easy, but there was a patch a while ago (frankly I don't remember when) that allowed me to choose difficulty once again. if I had chosen Easy again I would have received the +5 bonus again, making my character superillegal. :lol: So I picked Normal, kept the same stats and (temporarly lost the ER1 bonus, this happened when the character was under level 30).
I wouldn't be even able to replicate this if I wanted, because it happened once after a patch. I don't remember if I had deleted and remade the character with the same name at the same exact time when patch happened, but all I know is that I just thought it was bizarre and carried on.
But anyways, my main has the stats of an Easy mode character, but he's on Normal Mode.
I never thought this would be a big deal, but if easy mode characters are not being grandfathered, I suppose it's time to correct this thing on my character or there's a risk that it will stay with that +5 forever, effectively becoming grandfathered. :lol:
If possible by DM intervention, I'd have to switch journal entry from Normal to Easy on my character (Maishtar, account Clangeddin__86), without any further addition of stats.

Brumm
Posts: 2136

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#49 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:21 am

Thanks for being that honest. We'll handle your case when we pushed the change.

Volkier
Posts: 15

Re: RULE CHANGE: EASY MODE

Post#50 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:06 am

Sylvvar wrote:A quick question: If the stat points are not grandfathered on existing characters, will there be a free rebuild (from scratch) available for characters who become 'broken' due to it? By broken I mean instances like characters losing access to critical build feats because they no longer meet the requirements without the extra stats.

Volkier: Correct me if I'm wrong but I think easy mode characters get full experience from kills and quests, the only instance where they have a 50% exp penalty is when you apply banked exp to the character, which only comes out to be about 10% of your total exp earned by level 40?


Well pretty much all of the experience in the third campaign comes from being banked. Which is well over a mil. In the grand scheme of things, I guess for a level 40 it's not huge, but point remains that when you compare two new players side by side, the 'normal' would have an advantage when it matters (ie. during that third campaign, where giving you that extra ER or 2 is a huge advantage). Plus all the passive banked exp, and remakes of fail builds (though fair enough, that's not quite anybody's problem but the person remaking characters :P)

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