[POLL] How should we change Monk AC

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Poll: How should we address AC balance problem around Monk AC

Poll ended at Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:24 am

Don't change Monk AC feat, but adjust other feats
17
74%
Move Monk AC feat to Monk level 8
6
26%
Total votes: 23

Fan
Posts: 576

[POLL] How should we change Monk AC

Post#1 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:24 am

Two possible options:

A. We do not change Monk AC. Instead, we make the following changes. 1) Monk no longer gains ACs from Armor Skin II and III and 2) a new feat which gives ~3AC for two weapons/two-hand weapon melee/archer builds without Monk dipping.

B. Move Monk AC feat to Monk level 8.

Note that both of the two options are reasonably easy to implement. Also note that no matter which options we choose, if your toon gets affected by the change, you will be able to find a DM to help you to rebuild freely.

============================================
This poll will run two weeks. If the community favors one options over another with a significant margin (>= 66%), the corresponding change will be implemented when I have time. Otherwise, nothing will be changed.
Last edited by Fan on Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Countyboar
Posts: 590

Re: [POLL] How should we change Monk AC

Post#2 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:51 am

Fan wrote:2) a new feat which gives ~3AC for two weapons/two-hand weapon melee/archer builds without Monk dipping.


Did you mean "with monk dipping" at the end?


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Last edited by Countyboar on Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Fan
Posts: 576

Re: [POLL] How should we change Monk AC

Post#3 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:57 am

The new feat is roughly like this:

Shield Skin

Requires: 30+BAB, 30+ Str or 30+ Dex

When you are fighting without shield and double weapons (i.e., with no more than 4 shield bonus AC). You gain 3 natural AC (stacking with everything else). Monk does not gain any AC bonus from this feat.

Cataca
Posts: 307

Re: [POLL] How should we change Monk AC

Post#4 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:05 pm

Fan wrote:The new feat is roughly like this:

Shield Skin

Requires: 30+BAB, 30+ Str or 30+ Dex

When you are fighting without shield and double weapons (i.e., with no more than 4 shield bonus AC). You gain 3 natural AC (stacking with everything else). Monk does not gain any AC bonus from this feat.


In my experience, you'd need at least 7 AC to make it a valid choice. You still sacrifice AC for damage (about ~8) but you dont instantly evaporate.

Valariax
Posts: 426

Re: [POLL] How should we change Monk AC

Post#5 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:56 pm

I think option A is less abusive to current WIS-based monk-dip builds AND less confusing to new players who would likely expect monks to have the AC bonus starting at lvl 1.

I also agree with Cataca that 3 AC may not be enough to really compensate for the difference. Perhaps Shield Skin could have a progression as well, like what was done with Armor Skin I-III. If it could be made to qualify as a Ftr bonus feat then it would give high-density Fighter builds something else to spend all those bonus feats on, too.

Of course adding such a feat progression would be difficult for some without lots of "free" feat slots, so maybe making it a shard feat like the Unlimited Throwing Mastery line would be a little more equitable.
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Cervantes
Posts: 635

Re: [POLL] How should we change Monk AC

Post#6 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:59 pm

Not so much a fan of option 1...it hurts actual invested monks and won't help the monk dip problem...it's not on par with what a wisdom character gets from dipping a monk level.

The problem isn't monks. It's monk level 1 being so amazing.
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Itaasi
Posts: 799

Re: [POLL] How should we change Monk AC

Post#7 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:05 pm

The problem isn't monks. It's monk level 1 being so amazing.

I agree completely with this. Moving Monk AC to a later level would prevent WIS casters from getting it without losing DC's while keeping Monk just as powerful.
This would in turn make the maximum AC aquirable lower, which could mean a small AB nerf to high-end enemies, which again means that lower AC builds get a breath of new life.

Fan
Posts: 576

Re: [POLL] How should we change Monk AC

Post#8 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:09 pm

Cataca wrote:
In my experience, you'd need at least 7 AC to make it a valid choice. You still sacrifice AC for damage (about ~8) but you dont instantly evaporate.


Just a clarification, if we go the option 1, the bonus number 3 for the feat is not fixed. We may tune or buff it in future if it turns to be too weak.

adam
Posts: 466

Re: [POLL] How should we change Monk AC

Post#9 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:17 pm

Itaasi wrote:
The problem isn't monks. It's monk level 1 being so amazing.

I agree completely with this. Moving Monk AC to a later level would prevent WIS casters from getting it without losing DC's while keeping Monk just as powerful.
This would in turn make the maximum AC aquirable lower, which could mean a small AB nerf to high-end enemies, which again means that lower AC builds get a breath of new life.


and penalizes archers and ptwf builds. The above would fix one thing, and break another.

Itaasi
Posts: 799

Re: [POLL] How should we change Monk AC

Post#10 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:25 pm

and penalizes archers

Only if you take a monk level in your archer build. Not everyone does that (I didn't).

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