Turn Undead

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Brumm
Posts: 2136

Turn Undead

Post#1 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:30 am

Hello everybody,

I just want to inform you that I am planning to rewrite the code of Turn Undead. The current code is so bad that rewriting it from scratch will be easier than "fixing" it. The current code is very close to the NWN1 turning rules (http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Turn_undead) with a few exceptions and with a few 100 useless lines of code. I think the NWN1 rules are a good basis to start with but we can modify it here and there if you guys have good ideas.

First thing we need to talk about is if we want to keep the original turning rules (rebuke/turn) or if we want to make it damage based like it is for Paladins at the moment.

Ideas?

Brumm

adam
Posts: 466

Re: Turn Undead

Post#2 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:45 am

Clerics and paladins should be able to wreck undead, and causing the target to aimlessly wander will hurt, not only the cleric/paladin, but everyone else in the DPS department. AOE's will be less effective, and melee will have to chase mobs around. While it could give the caster time to heal or rebuff in a bad spot, it won't really do anything but prolong the fight. I vote to keep/instate damage for both classes, across the board.

MortisCorpus
Posts: 1536

Re: Turn Undead

Post#3 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:09 pm

I agree with Adam.
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Kaedrin
Posts: 49

Re: Turn Undead

Post#4 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:20 pm

I found the pathfinder rules for dealing damage to be one of the better ideas pathfinder ever brought to the table. Making something run so you have to chase it through the dungeon was always a terrible idea in pnp. The only thing I miss is having evil "dominate" undead if they wanted to which is something I just never got around to finishing (dominate undead tied to turn undead uses, new ability free for any cleric with an evil alignment).

I rewrote even the damage code a month ago for Necromancer to handle the feats I never got around to before (the improved turning, etc feats) by letting them add "effective levels" to the damage calc. It wasn't a major change since it was mostly done with Paladins so I can dig it up if needed.
My latest work can be read about on my blog found here: http://kaedrin-nwn2.blogspot.com/

Zan
Posts: 86

Re: Turn Undead

Post#5 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:44 pm

Hi. I am just curious.. effect of turn undead {depend on caster level} to undead - fear, death, control or only death?
Different classes can use turn undead { on caster level}, but they can affect smaller group of undead ;)

Brumm
Posts: 2136

Re: Turn Undead

Post#6 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:09 am

Ok, I am done with the revised code. Took a while but I had lots of other things going on in the past. I made the code a lot easier but it is still pretty complex. I hope you understand the following rules. Long term one of our RP DMs might write a better explanation which we can add in game.

Most important thing: Turn Undead deals damage now.

Variables:
A. Turning Level
Your turning level is determined by your levels of classes with ability to turn undead. You are treated as one level higher when you have the feat Improved Turning.
Your Turning Level is further modified by a Turn Check (-4 / +4). Your Turn Check result is: d20 + Charisma modifier. If you have the Sun Domain you add another d4 to your Turn Check. The Turn Check modifies your Turning Level based on the following table:

0 or less −4
1 to 3 −3
4 to 6 −2
7 to 9 −1
10 to 12 +0
13 to 15 +1
16 to 18 +2
19 to 21 +3
22 or higher +4

B. Turning DC
The DC of your Turn Undead ability is 10 + Turning Level + CHA modifier. You get another 5% for each Epic Relevel.

C. Turning Damage
You get 1d6 damage for each Turning Level and 12d6 for each Epic Relevel. 12d6/ER sounds a lot but that's what it was the whole time. We probably need to reduce it.
You get an extra 50% damage if you have the feat Empower Turning.
Save for half damage.

D. Who can be turned?
[*] Undeads
[*] Outsiders if you have the Evil Domain or the Good Domain or the Feat Planar Turning
[*] Plants if you have the Plant Domain
[*] Constructs if you have the Destruction Domain
[*] Elementals if you have the Air, Earth, Fire or Water Domain

Greetings
Brumm

Cataca
Posts: 307

Re: Turn Undead

Post#7 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:01 am

Awesome work brumm! A question for clarification:

The DC of your Turn Undead ability is 10 + Turning Level + CHA modifier. You get another 5% for each Epic Relevel.


The target to make is "more DCs than creature HD", right?

Brumm
Posts: 2136

Re: Turn Undead

Post#8 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:23 am

Nope, the DC is just for the damage now. There is a save for half damage.

addict-ant
Posts: 662

Re: Turn Undead

Post#9 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:30 am

Wow - fantastic. Nice One Brumm.

Would like to echo what Kaedrin said (sorry only just became aware of this posting) - would be nice for evil clerics/blackguard to be able to dominate undead - though if that's a headache to enact no worries.

Thanks for your all hard work - it is most appreciated.
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Naamarikala
Posts: 145

Re: Turn Undead

Post#10 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:39 pm

Were the following changes ever implemented?
Brumm wrote:D. Who can be turned?
[*] Undeads
[*] Outsiders if you have the Evil Domain or the Good Domain or the Feat Planar Turning
[*] Plants if you have the Plant Domain
[*] Constructs if you have the Destruction Domain
[*] Elementals if you have the Air, Earth, Fire or Water Domain


I checked that you can't turn elementals with water domain. I understood from Brumm's post above that these changes were implemented. Could one of the developers check if they are supposed to work?

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