Warlock Suggestions

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Samyx
Posts: 816

Re: Warlock Suggestions

Post#11 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:06 am

Hello !

My quarterly complaining post !
No, I won't, this time.

I would like more damage to warlock, set remade, I like the chasuble Idea (If we could "Improve" the set amulet at rizolvir by merging a greater chasuble and transform into an "improved" warlock set amulet, would be great)

To scale properly, isn't there a way to have the damage purely calculated on warlock CL instead of number of dices ?
Eldritch master would then work as a warlock-flavored "epic harsh caster"
Epic blast would add other tidbits cumulateive percentages, or bonus to CL for blast clculation thus increasing damage ?
Thus the improved set amulet would, for instance, add 3 to CL, thus improving summons and blasts ?

Samyx

fox
Posts: 260

Re: Warlock Suggestions

Post#12 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:37 am

I think warlocks look just fine right now. The biggest compaint was summoner/invoker disparity and that gap was closed with the latest changes.
The chausible thingie is really lame tbh 2d dmg over the set AC bonus is stupid swap.

Let's not forget warlocks have endless spells, this whether you choose to accept it or not is a huge advantage over regular casters. To move warlocks into the CL caster class would completely rework them (again), and make them entirely too OP.

Giant2005
Posts: 81

Re: Warlock Suggestions

Post#13 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:44 pm

Samyx wrote:I would like more damage to warlock, set remade, I like the chasuble Idea (If we could "Improve" the set amulet at rizolvir by merging a greater chasuble and transform into an "improved" warlock set amulet, would be great)

That would be great and I certainly respect the idea, but considering the Chasuble is something you can just buy, you may as well just have the bonus come attached to the Set Amulet, as everyone would just do so anyway.
Samyx wrote:To scale properly, isn't there a way to have the damage purely calculated on warlock CL instead of number of dices ?
Eldritch master would then work as a warlock-flavored "epic harsh caster"

I think that it already is calculated based on CL, just at a half rate and with the epic feats acting as a bonus.
Samyx wrote:Epic blast would add other tidbits cumulateive percentages, or bonus to CL for blast clculation thus increasing damage ?
Thus the improved set amulet would, for instance, add 3 to CL, thus improving summons and blasts ?

That would certainly be the most interesting path to take! I wouldn't ask for that though, that is asking for brand new stuff rather than fixes to the old stuff. It would be more work than I'd feel comfortable requesting.

Giant2005
Posts: 81

Re: Warlock Suggestions

Post#14 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:53 pm

fox wrote:The chausible thingie is really lame tbh 2d dmg over the set AC bonus is stupid swap.

That is the point I was making. The othre Sets get both damage and AC. The Warlock is the only one that has to sacrifice damage for AC. That disparity should be fixed.
fox wrote:Let's not forget warlocks have endless spells, this whether you choose to accept it or not is a huge advantage over regular casters. To move warlocks into the CL caster class would completely rework them (again), and make them entirely too OP.

Yes warlocks have endless spells, but so does every other caster in RoT. This isn't a low magic world where casters have to make do with just a couple of high level spell slots, RoT casters literally have dozens. Enough to not just last an encounter, but several before resting and doing it all over again.
Regardless, Warlocks aren't supposed to be weaker as the price for having limitless casting. That is a feature strictly here in RoT. In vanilla NWN2, their damage was comparable to that of the other Casters and their penalty came in their limited options. Warlocks are basically a one-trick pony while the other casters have a tool for every situation. The notion that their damage shouldn't be brought up to the levels of the other casters because that would be OP doesn't make sense. I'm not asking for them to be put ahead of anyone, just brought to the same level.

fox
Posts: 260

Re: Warlock Suggestions

Post#15 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:08 pm

We have spent entirely too much time on Warlocks already, and it's a great class to play.
I personally am sick of it, because the real classes that need help here are not warlocks anymore.
Everything is not meant to be perfectly balanced. Someone needs to kick that tired ass rock down the fooking road.

They are already one of the most powerful classes. Period. If you are having troubles making it work, then you just need to rethink your play style. I am able to play almost anywhere at the highest levels with warlocks. Fighters, rogues, etc with 0 companions/summons, do not come even close to this level, so again this is a waste of energy to push for a warlock rebuild (again).

There is no server alive that has made warlocks this fun to play. And after so long working on them we just need to move on. More warlock work well, It's not going to improve the server anymore than it has.

Like I said whether you accept it or not its a huge advantage. I always run out of spells on my casters, always.

Brumm
Posts: 2439

Re: Warlock Suggestions

Post#16 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:32 pm

Damn, you guys really wrote a lot while I was at work. I just quick read everything because I am pretty tired right now but I think Palefox is right here. Warlocks are very strong and in a good shape. I would say we wait a bit to see how the recent change to the invoker path turn out for now and maybe update an invocation or two here and there. There are really other classes that we can take a look at.

Brumm

Aenain
Posts: 126

Re: Warlock Suggestions

Post#17 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:14 am

Everyone seems to forget the set already conveys a damage bonus in the form of boosted CL.

I agree with Fox and Brumm. Brumm has spent around a year reworking this class, and I do not know how many hours were spent beta testing stuff for these changes. Let's not ask for a rework of it all again.

That said, the set could use a revamp.

bsb5652
Site Admin
Posts: 3160
Contact:

Re: Warlock Suggestions

Post#18 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:23 am

I'm down for revamping the set items, as long as we get some good requirements on what needs changed and get that locked in.
Brian Bloom

Realms of Trinity Executive Producer & Game Creator
http://www.realmsoftrinity.com

Aenain
Posts: 126

Re: Warlock Suggestions

Post#19 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:22 am

Some suggestions on the changes, more may be needed. I kept the changes very small but think this would benefit the class greatly. I did not change the amulet because the rings can be stacked if you wish to use the other item and there should be a tradeoff.

Circle of Stixx

Ring Regeneration +10
Ability Bonus Charisma +12
Skill Bonus +10 Spellcraft
Skill Bonus +5 UseMagicDevice
Bonus Hitpoints +25
Immunity: Damage Type Divine 5% Immunity Bonus
Immunity: Damage Type Magical 5% Immunity Bonus
Immunity: Damage Type Positive Energy 5% Immunity Bonus
On use: Sequencer ability
Use Limitation: Class Warlock

Death's Locket
Amulet Ability Bonus Dexterity +12
AC Bonus +12
Immunity: Damage Type Divine 5% Immunity Bonus
Immunity: Damage Type Magical 5% Immunity Bonus
Immunity: Damage Type Positive Energy 5% Immunity Bonus
Bonus Hitpoints +25
Regeneration +7
Saving Throw Bonus +5 Universal
Use Limitation: Class Warlock

Morticians Gloves
Bracer Immunity: Miscellaneous Level/Ability Drain
Immunity: Damage Type Divine 5% Immunity Bonus
Immunity: Damage Type Magical 5% Immunity Bonus
Immunity: Damage Type Positive Energy 5% Immunity Bonus
Ability Bonus Strength +10
Bonus Hitpoints +25
Regeneration +5
Skill Bonus +5 Concentration
Skill Bonus +5 Tumble
Use Limitation: Class Warlock

Morticians Mock
Armor - Cloth AC Bonus +8
Arcane Spell Failure -45%
Ability Bonus Constitution +12
Base Item Weight Reduction 80% of Weight
Immunity: Damage Type Divine 5% Immunity Bonus
Immunity: Damage Type Magical 5% Immunity Bonus
Immunity: Damage Type Positive Energy 5% Immunity Bonus
Regeneration +10
Bonus Hitpoints +25
Skill Bonus +10 Concentration
Skill Bonus +5 Lore
Use Limitation: Class Warlock


Skulls Visage
Helmet Bonus Feat Slippery Mind
Spell Resistance 40
Damage Resistance Magical [15/-]
Cast Spell Cast Spell Greater Spell Mantle (17) (4 Uses/Day)
Immunity: Damage Type Divine 5% Immunity Bonus
Immunity: Damage Type Magical 5% Immunity Bonus
Immunity: Damage Type Positive Energy 5% Immunity Bonus
Bonus Hitpoints +25
Regeneration +5
Skill Bonus +10 Concentration
Skill Bonus +5 Spellcraft
Ability Bonus Intelligence +10
Use Limitation: Class Warlock

The Bonemans Greaves
Boots AC Bonus +12
Base Item Weight Reduction 80% of Weight
Regeneration +5
Freedom of Movement
Immunity: Miscellaneous Knockdown
Immunity: Damage Type Bludgeoning 25% Immunity Bonus
Bonus Hitpoints +25
Skill Bonus +5 Tumble
Skill Bonus +5 Use Magic Device
Use Limitation: Class Warlock

The Bonemans Plate
Armor - Mithral_Full-Plate
Ability Bonus Constitution +12
AC Bonus +8
Base Item Weight Reduction 80% of Weight
Arcane Spell Failure -45%
Bonus Hitpoints +25
Immunity: Damage Type Divine 5% Immunity Bonus
Immunity: Damage Type Magical 5% Immunity Bonus
Immunity: Damage Type Positive Energy 5% Immunity Bonus
Regeneration +10
Skill Bonus +10 Concentration
Skill Bonus +5 Spellcraft
Use Limitation: Class Warlock

Set Rank Bonuses
Rank 2

*** Set Bonus Applied (2 Items) ***
* Regeneration +15
* 25 Bonus HP

Rank 3

*** Set Bonus Applied (3 Items) ***
* Regeneration +15
* 50 Bonus HP
* Immunity Against Silence
* Cold Damage Bonus (The bonus scales with your Warlock level. It is 2d4 (LVL 12), 2d6 (LVL16), 2d8 (LVL 20), 2d10 (LVL 24),

Rank 4

*** Set Bonus Applied (4 Items) ***
* Regeneration +15
* 75 Bonus HP
* Immunity Against Silence, Fear, Critical Hits
* Cold/Negative Damage Bonus (The bonus scales with your Warlock level. It is 2d4 (LVL 12), 2d6 (LVL16), 2d8 (LVL 20), 2d10 (LVL 24))
* AC + 8 (Deflection, Armor)
* Casterlevel +2

Rank 5

*** Set Bonus Applied (5 Items) ***
* Regeneration +15
* 100 Bonus HP
* Immunity Against Silence, Fear, Critical Hits, Blindness/Deafness
* Cold/Negative/Piercing Damage Bonus (The bonus scales with your Warlock level. It is 2d4 (LVL 12), 2d6 (LVL16), 2d8 (LVL 20), 2d10 (LVL 24))
* AC + 10 (Deflection, Armor)
* Casterlevel +2
* Concentration +10

Rank 6

*** Set Bonus Applied (6 Items) ***
* Regeneration +15
* 125 Bonus HP
* Immunity Against Silence, Fear, Critical Hits, Stun, Paralyze, Blindness/Deafness
* Cold/Negative/Piercing Damage Bonus (The bonus scales with your Warlock level. It is 2d4 (LVL 12), 2d6 (LVL16), 2d8 (LVL 20), 2d10 (LVL 24), 2d12 (LVL 28))
* AC + 11 (Deflection, Armor). For every three Warlock Level above the 18th, you get another point of AC up to a maximum of +15.
* Casterlevel +2
* 15% Physical Damage Immunity
* Concentration +10

I believe the sequencer ability would help since Warlocks lack a lot buff spells. This would make a few easily available without a pandora stone.

kc2345
Posts: 849

Re: Warlock Suggestions

Post#20 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:45 am

Warlock Set:
Individual pieces: I don't think the additional Lore/Spellcraft bonuses are actually meaningful. We can probably omit those and simply add a sequencer effect to any of the set pieces (EXCEPT for the ring, as we do not want people double stacking rings for 2 sequencers being the default best option).

I would propose the following as an additional 6 pc bonus, dependent on the path taken at level 12:
Path of the Summoner:
Summoning Mastery: Your summons gain +2 AB, +2 AC and +10% universal damage immunity

Path of the Invoker:
Fel Power: Your Eldritch Blasts and Invocations gain +2 DC, and the duration of your Invocations and Eldritch Essences is doubled

The listing of Deflection/Armor bonuses is also wrong. I believe that the set actually adds NATURAL AC, and there is an issue with the numerical calculation.

Chasuble of Fell Power:
This can be implemented as a new runeword on amulets that adds the effect to any existing amulet

Warlock Blasts:
While I agree with fox and Aenian that warlocks are fine (in fact, very good) at level 40, I see that the complaints about warlock damage being lacking are coming from people with lower level warlocks. This is not really surprising, as warlocks have a very odd scaling structure. They scale very poorly off CL, and gain a lot of base blast dice via feats. This is then multiplied by a very big bonus on Eldritch Master (+50%!) and another +30% from Hellfire Warlock. So if a lower level warlock has not gotten significant Epic Blast dice or is not a Hellfire Warlock, it will be hardly surprising that their damage is too low.

This is why I proposed the following to keep the top end power the same, but give a boost to lower level warlocks, and allow non-Hellfire Warlock builds to at least be usable:
1) Scale 1d10 blast per CL
2) Cut Eldritch Master from +50% to +8%
3) Cut Hellfire Warlock from +10%/level to +5% per level

This will not cripple any existing warlocks, and will bring up the damage of lower level warlocks, in particular pre-epic ones. I have updated my earlier post with worked examples of how this will affect warlocks.

Eldritch Cone and Eldritch Doom
Spear/Glaive already do excellent damage, and Chain sees utility as a large radius AOE disable. Cone and Doom unfortunately do not fill a niche, and are significantly crippled by their reflex 1/2 penalty. I would propose the following to make Cone/Doom more useful:
Cone: +25% raised to +50%
Doom: +0% raised to +25%

Hellfire Shield
The penalty is currently far too large for the mediocre damage benefit. I have noticed that my warlock is extremely vulnerable with it on, and does not do much additional damage. I would propose removing the HP penalty entirely, and this can be implemented in tandem with the slashing of the passive EB bonus from the Hellfire Warlock class.

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