Updating the MM class and AA/MM Set

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kc2345
Posts: 803

Re: Updating the MM class and AA/MM Set

Post#11 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:11 pm

Updated with ranged conceal. The crit chance bonus is already part of the planned set bonus, and I'm trying not to duplicate effects.

Moreover, ranged but not melee conceal would serve to encourage the marksman to fight from long range instead of charging into battle and firing point blank - which I think is RP appropriate.
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Tom D
Posts: 47

Re: Updating the MM class and AA/MM Set

Post#12 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:50 am

Good stuff KC. Lot of work there!

Some thoughts/questions...

1. With these changes, is there any reason to go pure Ranger Longbow? I know one of your goals is choices and it looks at first glance like if I want a ranger longbower I would always choose MM? But maybe that is ok too. Just mentioning it.

2. Maybe MM should not have animal companion stacking. Maybe that level of focusing on a longbow precludes taking care of a companion. Animals don’t always work when snipering is needed either. They are too loud, unpredictable or smelly. This helps with 1 also.

3. I think current Fishing Pole requires AA levels to equip, so the combination work with the unicorn mane should not require the MM to equip it. BTW - genius idea using an existing item to create a new item.

4. I would prefer either boosting str from gloves to +12 or removing it entirely.

5. Agree on the DR changes. MM doesn’t scream hearty and bulletproof.

That’s first glance. I will go through more later and as others post.

Again - thanks for all work and ideas!

Samyx
Posts: 768

Re: Updating the MM class and AA/MM Set

Post#13 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:01 am

I also agree a marskman should not really rely on animal companion, and is not expected to be incredibly resistant. However, having it excluded from prey knowledge is a nonsense to me, and always will be.

kc2345
Posts: 803

Re: Updating the MM class and AA/MM Set

Post#14 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:03 am

Hi Tom,

With regards to your points:

1) Ranger longbow isn't really made any weaker/stronger by the MM change, and you can still access the new longbow set by building a Hunter style ranger/Arcane Archer hybrid - something like a hunter style Ranger 26/Scout3/Bard1/AA10 for example. Perhaps this could represent your longbow-focused archer build with sneak and prey knowledge? Pure ranger longbow is a lot more flexible build-wise in stacking other classes compared to a MM build.

Moreover, the longbow simply does not mesh well with the ranger's hunter playstyle due to lack of finishing stroke damage (archery style is not very good at all, and I doubt people would take it). Darts and Spears are far superior from a pure mechanics standpoint for a hunter-type ranger.

2) With regards to animal companions, I think it's a bit of a waste if one of a ranger's key features is left by the wayside.

A ranger who takes marksman already gives up a class slot (pure rangers with longbows can add 3 more classes), loses his favored enemy progression, ranger levelling goodies (HIPs, Tracking, Evasion), sneak progression (MM does not award sneak dice even with the scout feats), and combat style bonuses (Prey Knowledge, Improved Evasion, Defensive Roll). So I think there is already a fair tradeoff in taking the MM class, as the previous advantage of having rapid casting progression is gone due to rangers being made full CL at baseline.

With the MM change, I'm looking to make the longbow ranger + pet style viable. AA has far stronger AB/Dmg advancement and much more potent special shots if you're looking for a longbow focused build that does not involve pets.

3) Definitely

4) Updating it to +12. Minor issue, as rangers or arcane archers should have access to the Animalistic Power spell which grants 12 Str at ER5.

With regards to MM and the archery or hunter style, I don't really mind either way. I designed the MM abilities to scale with MM level, so there's a tradeoff between primary ranger benefits (favored enemies and sneak dice are huge for hunter style rangers - which are lost by going too heavy into MM. Moreover, longbow doesn't work great with prey as mentioned earlier). This means that it probably won't be game-breaking or anything to allow hunter rangers into MM.
Last edited by kc2345 on Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Samyx
Posts: 768

Re: Updating the MM class and AA/MM Set

Post#15 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:31 am

A ranger / marksman who doe snot have acess to the main piercing feat for rangers ? Thanks but no thanks.
Without prey knowledge & the other nice hunter line feats, I can't see why we would bother take this PRC.

kc2345
Posts: 803

Re: Updating the MM class and AA/MM Set

Post#16 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:43 am

This is a problem with the ranger class itself.

Brumm's update to rangers introduced a new style that is so strong, that all other styles feel obsolete. Since when was there any min-max ranger heavy build that used a style OTHER than hunter?

As I've said before, I don't really care either way whether hunter rangers are able to access marksman or not (due to the reasons explained above) but I think future work should be devoted to all the OTHER ranger combat styles so that hunter is not the automatic default go-to style.

Perhaps in a future update? Would love to see TWF/animal companion/2H and archery styles get some love.
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Samyx
Posts: 768

Re: Updating the MM class and AA/MM Set

Post#17 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:06 am

You're right about that.
Anyway, I'll take the "everything new is good" mood style and say : go on with it !

Aenain
Posts: 70

Re: Updating the MM class and AA/MM Set

Post#18 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:05 am

I agree the others could use love in the future as well.

fox
Posts: 170

Re: Updating the MM class and AA/MM Set

Post#19 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:46 am

Does this mean all current "Fishing poles" become set item?

Aenain
Posts: 70

Re: Updating the MM class and AA/MM Set

Post#20 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:55 pm

More like a "pre-set item".

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