Some Spellcasting Change Ideas

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kc2345
Posts: 745

Some Spellcasting Change Ideas

Post#1 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:03 am

Hi all,
I am aware that the next major change on the table is the warlock revision, followed by summons and bard spellcasting. This thread lists some changes I am thinking of that could in theory be completed very rapidly, and should not significantly detract from the major project revisions in terms of developer time/effort. The main questions are:

A) Is the change desirable/useful?
B) In terms of game balance/potential bugs, what possible negative impact could the change have?
C) Is it actually something that can feasibly be done? Or am I grossly underestimating the developer complexity of introducing this?

Suggestion 1: Allowing EKs to cast in Tenser’s
Reason: The implementation of Tenser’s runs counterproductive to playing an EK as a hybrid caster/weapon user, as the magnitude of the buff is huge (+10 BAB and +7 Natural AC), and dropping the buff to cast is therefore extremely counterproductive.

Suggestion: Add a new feat, auto awarded at EK 26 – Martial Spellcaster. Possessing this feat allows an EK to cast spells without losing Tenser’s. Awarding it at EK 26 precludes the EK from also getting the 3 purist caster feats (26 + 15 = 41), so the potency of his spellcasts are reduced compared to a pure offensive spellcaster.

Suggestion 2: Casting a BAB modifying spell/ability removes any previously cast BAB-modifying spell/ability cleanly
Reason: There is currently an issue with Divine Power where re-casting it or applying another BAB modifying spell does not refresh or change the duration. Thus, if you cast a 5 min Divine Power, then tried to refresh Divine Power after 4 min, both Divine Powers fall off on the 5th min. I am not sure if this extends to the other BAB modifying-abilities, but it would be good to check anyway.

Suggestion: I believe there are currently 4 BAB modifying abilities – Divine Power, Tenser’s Transformation, Intelligent Attack (Swashbuckler), and Legionnaire’s March (Bardsong). Adding code that checks for these 4 abilities and then removes them before applying a new BAB effect should resolve this issue.

Suggestion 3: Removing the paralysis of Blade Barrier (Self)
Reason: Casting the Blade Barrier (Self) spell roots the caster in place and locks them in combat. This is extremely annoying when cast by a player character (unless they can teleport out of it), and also causes AI issues with mobs that cast it (Harpies and Minions In Weapons of War 2 who stand stationary after casting the Blade Barrier on you)

Suggestion: Remove the lines of code that root the caster for this spell.

Suggestion 4: Adding the ability to target KPRC nature spells onto a Rod of Fast Buffing
Reason: The KPRC nature spells have an odd feature where casting the spell automatically targets the spell on the caster much like Divine Shield. In contrast, nwn2 base spells allowed for targeting even in the case of Personal spells like Divine Favor. This makes the KPRC spells incompatible with the Fast Buff rod, as you cannot cast the spell into the rod.

Suggestion: Make the Personal range KPRC spells allow for targeting in the same manner as Divine Favor.

Feedback/comments on these suggestions is welcome.
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Samyx
Posts: 723

Re: Some Spellcasting Change Ideas

Post#2 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:57 am

I agree to all of that.

May I also suggest that, if possible, domain spells could also be put on rods ?

bsb5652
Site Admin
Posts: 2896
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Re: Some Spellcasting Change Ideas

Post#3 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:51 am

I like all those changes. The rods are disasters the way they work and limitations that come with them. I think we'll have to reach out to Naam and see if he can get some engine level fixes to help make rods work with all spells properly, regardless of radial or non-radial.
Brian Bloom

Realms of Trinity Executive Producer & Game Creator
http://www.realmsoftrinity.com

fox
Posts: 143

Re: Some Spellcasting Change Ideas

Post#4 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:00 pm

They all seem ok, except Tensers.
Tensers also raises your AC, and is just too powerful to allow casting with it on.
Like allowing a melee to cast spells for 5 min. It effectively turns you into the hulk, hulk with magic. Just seems too stronng.

kc2345
Posts: 745

Re: Some Spellcasting Change Ideas

Post#5 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:38 pm

Yes, Casting in Tenser's is indeed a big AC boost. This is why I wanted to put it at EK 26 to lock out the purist casting feats to balance it out. That way, you are looking at the following penalties for casting in Tenser's compared to a non-EK arcane caster:

1) 1/2 Power Harsh Casting (from ~60% down to ~30%) due to not having Epic Harsh Casting
2) 10% instead of 20% bonus damage (Epic Explosive damage)
3) -5 DC and -5 CL on Spell Penetration due to no Domineering Casting.

These penalties are very significant, and balance out the bonus of casting in Tenser's.

Other than a caster arcanist, the other closest benchmark for EKs are FS/Clerics, who cast with the 3 Epic Purist caster feats and can still melee (and HEAL!), albeit with a much weaker selection of offensive spells. They actually get better AB, AC and damage vs an EK, but are a lot less durable due to lacking arcane exclusives like conceal, mirror images (possible with certain cleric domains) and epic warding.
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fox
Posts: 143

Re: Some Spellcasting Change Ideas

Post#6 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:48 pm

Man this will surely really help your builds.
I say go ahead. You get everything you want Kc , why delay this?

Kalzanin
Posts: 39

Re: Some Spellcasting Change Ideas

Post#7 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:10 pm

These sound reasonable to me.

The EK change is the most impactful - the inability to cast spells in Tensers is why we pretty much don't see EK builds as much as we see FS/cleric-based melees/ranged.

The blade barrier spell has always been funny in Nwn2 when something casts it around itself and then it's just stuck in place.

Naamarikala
Posts: 146

Re: Some Spellcasting Change Ideas

Post#8 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:19 pm

kc2345 wrote:Suggestion 2: Casting a BAB modifying spell/ability removes any previously cast BAB-modifying spell/ability cleanly
Reason: There is currently an issue with Divine Power where re-casting it or applying another BAB modifying spell does not refresh or change the duration. Thus, if you cast a 5 min Divine Power, then tried to refresh Divine Power after 4 min, both Divine Powers fall off on the 5th min. I am not sure if this extends to the other BAB modifying-abilities, but it would be good to check anyway.

Suggestion: I believe there are currently 4 BAB modifying abilities – Divine Power, Tenser’s Transformation, Intelligent Attack (Swashbuckler), and Legionnaire’s March (Bardsong). Adding code that checks for these 4 abilities and then removes them before applying a new BAB effect should resolve this issue.


I implemented an engine level fix to this today. The fix applies the largest BAB modification at all times. Will be included in the next plugin version.

kc2345
Posts: 745

Re: Some Spellcasting Change Ideas

Post#9 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:54 pm

@Naam That would be excellent, as it solves the massive problem of Bards using Legionnaire's March, and allows FS/Clerics to re-buff Divine Power to refresh the duration.

With regards to allowing EKs to cast in battle, since it is potentially a major balance change, I am going to re-list it, along with comments about the proposal, in a fresh thread for more visibility.
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