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1/5/2010 7:00:31 PM
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-Kama-
Posts 414
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*** All Z&K Sudios work is a collaboration effort comprised of Zeus and -Kama- ***
 
edited by -Kama- on 1/5/2010
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-Kama-
*****Retired DM team, forums administrator, custom content creator and manager, & builder.*****
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1/5/2010 7:01:59 PM
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-Kama-
Posts 414
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*** All Z&K Sudios work is a collaboration effort comprised of Zeus and -Kama- ***
edited by -Kama- on 1/5/2010
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-Kama-
*****Retired DM team, forums administrator, custom content creator and manager, & builder.*****
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1/8/2010 9:56:14 PM
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dbowser
Posts 11
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Those axes look disgustingly awesome
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Head DM ROT
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1/9/2010 12:23:11 PM
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BlameTheRogue
Posts 109
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will the axes go in as true double-bladed axes? or will they be a different skin for halberds or the like?
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1/9/2010 5:36:39 PM
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Zeus
Posts 152
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All of the weapons are true double-sided weapons. This means that they will all have off-hand attacks and will more or less be treated as dual wielding weapons. All of the two-weapon fighting feats will apply to them, but the two-weapon defense and weapon finesse feats will not. I don't want to give away too much about them so I'll leave it at that for now.
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-Z-
Z&K's Traps: All proceeds go to the Kimball & Kimball fund for underprivileged assassins.
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1/10/2010 10:32:16 AM
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BlameTheRogue
Posts 109
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you rogues and your secrets, man i tell u....oh, ya, i play a rog and a sd death mage... *looks at his own log in* *feigns an innocent look* *points accusingly at someone else then vanishes*
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1/14/2010 9:32:23 PM
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crashume
Posts 15
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ever considered a double headed scythe, with the blades reversed vs each other for orientation?
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1/19/2010 9:12:47 AM
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-Kama-
Posts 414
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OK folks, just an update here since we've been feilding lots of questions on the progress for the weapons project:
as of last night Z&K have turned over a total of 7 dbl axes, 4 dire maces and 3 dbl swords to our fearless leader.
Also, the work is progressing nicely to add in the new weapons basetype to the forge scripts courtesy of Fearless Leader.
These new stuff "should" be available to players in base form soon if all the testing goes as planned.
I know theres a bunch of you chomping at the bit to get your hands on these great new toys, but please have a little more patience as we're trying to test fully as well as make sure that the opening round of models is up to snuff first.........We aren't of the mind of having to do fix updates 3x a week.......
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-Kama-
*****Retired DM team, forums administrator, custom content creator and manager, & builder.*****
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10/22/2010 1:06:40 AM
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jspangler
Posts 16
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What, if any, are the prerequisites for the "Double Weapon" feat?
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10/22/2010 2:36:52 AM
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Zeus
Posts 152
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Exotic Weapons
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-Z-
Z&K's Traps: All proceeds go to the Kimball & Kimball fund for underprivileged assassins.
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10/22/2010 4:40:22 AM
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jspangler
Posts 16
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Well. I tried that. As a 4.5 million gold (craaaaaaaaaap!) experiment, after upgrading the Double-axe of Defense, I releveled my ranger. I took all feats that might be applicable to double-axe two weapon fighting; Perfect two weapon fighting (both normal and ranger versions), monkey grip, the big weapon two-handy feat, exotic weapons proficiency, weapon focus (double axe), improved and power crit (double axe), and probably a few others.
Nowhere during this process did I have the option to select a Double Weapon feat, nor did I ever get the ability to use it, despite the exotic weapon proficiency. I did get to choose double axe weapon focus, improved crit, etc.
I also tried Double-axe of the Electrifier, which also did not work. AFAIK, these are the only two availabe on RoT2 at this time.
So. End result: Double weapons are broken. Is this a known issue and a planned fix? Thank you for your time!
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10/22/2010 7:25:41 AM
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Zeus
Posts 152
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I just tested it and it's working fine. I have no idea what you're doing wrong. Just to be sure, you're getting the feats "Weapon Proficiency: Exotic" and then "Weapon Proficiency: Double Weapons", right? You're not even supposed to be able to access the "Weapon Focus: Double Axe" feat until after you have both of those.
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-Z-
Z&K's Traps: All proceeds go to the Kimball & Kimball fund for underprivileged assassins.
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10/22/2010 10:40:12 AM
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bbloom
Posts 1437
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Same here. Works perfect. Please let me know the name of your character and we can pull up your stats and check it out for any possible misses.
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Brian S. Bloom
Realms of Trinity Executive Producer
Neverwinter Nights Podcast Host
Area Developer & Scripter
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10/22/2010 11:45:42 AM
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jspangler
Posts 16
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Well I'll be... When the relevel to use the weapons (it was just a test afterall) failed, I exited the void. Let me try again. I'll post later after I give it another go. Thanks for the quick responses guys. No wonder people come back to this PR.
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10/22/2010 12:42:36 PM
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jspangler
Posts 16
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It did work this time. Before, it let me take the weapon focus and critical feats without having the weapon proficiency. It still did, but it let me choose the feat this time.
Did you know it doesn't take into account Rangers' Two-Weapon Fighting styles? You do not recieve the bonus attacks as you should. It also doesn't work with tempest AB/AC bonuses. I have read elsewhere that some other class abilities, mainly abilities that add damage to specific weapon-types. do not function as they should, but I plan to experiment a little more.
I have another question as well. Why not allow these to work with Weapon Finesse? Why not at least with the double-sword and dire mace (it makes more sense here than with the axe)? You need a good(19)/great(25) DEX to get the extra attacks to make it worth it, but you have to make it a STR build to hit anything. I will have to be Dragon Disciple and at least ER1 to get anything out of them. That really makes it difficult to find any use for these.
edited by jspangler on 10/22/2010
edited by jspangler on 10/22/2010
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10/22/2010 3:17:29 PM
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Jastin
Posts 138
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Weapon Finesse is for small, light, quick weapons. Big giant two handed weapon would hardly make sense.
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ROT DM
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10/22/2010 7:25:19 PM
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jspangler
Posts 16
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Jastin wrote:
Weapon Finesse is for small, light, quick weapons. Big giant two handed weapon would hardly make sense.
Yeah. I was thinking maaaaaybe with two handed sword it does. But, with the axe and such, no. You are correct there good sir.
The core of what I was trying to say is:
1. You need a high DEX to get the number of attacks to use these properly.
2. You need a high STR to get a good enough AB to hit anything in the higher chapters.
3. Catering to both these ability score needs is very difficult when you factor in all other aspects of a character, so there should be some sort of comprimise to allow people to use these, in the form of; A)weapon finesse, or B) Some other way to aquire two-weapon fighting feats other than high DEX.
Since A makes little sense at all, option B would be nice, so can these be retooled to work with the Ranger Fighting Style feats? If not, they are pretty useless, except to look cool and for RP purposes, neither of which will keep you alive in RoT.
If not, can a few feats be added that mimic the two weapon fighting feats, which only function for double weapons, and which rely on STR or have lower DEX requirements? This would prevent abuse of the feats for other weapons, and allow these awesome creations to be viable.
Alternately, it may be easier to make double weapons use part of each (DEX/STR) modifier for AB.
edited by jspangler on 10/23/2010
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10/23/2010 12:33:03 AM
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jspangler
Posts 16
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Let me know if you guys need me to do some testing with these. I am always willing to invest some time towards improving the content.
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10/23/2010 2:55:54 AM
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Zeus
Posts 152
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Double weapons never worked with weapon finesse in any version of D&D that I'm aware of. Simply put, a double weapon is a single large weapon, not two small weapons. You would be better off treating it as a quarter staff with a pair of large blades/axes/maces on the ends. I have no plans of changing this as it is the way it should be. A double weapon character should always be treated as a MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependent) character.
Also, you'll recall back in version 3.0 that the Ranger's two-weapon style didn't work with double weapons either. This was because a Ranger was trained to use two weapons, not a single large one. In version 3.5 they allowed the Ranger to use double weapons with this feat (I never thought this made sense). However, there's nothing I can do about this because the game is, for whatever reason, choosing to use the 3.0 version rules.
Even with all this, they are far from useless. There are a few ways to build a veritable meat grinder with these. This I know from 1st hand experience as I have a couple builds that can solo most of the game.
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-Z-
Z&K's Traps: All proceeds go to the Kimball & Kimball fund for underprivileged assassins.
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10/23/2010 2:00:36 PM
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jspangler
Posts 16
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Shot down! I thought as much, so I have started a toon with the goal of learning to use these weapons properly. We shall see how it goes. Any advice then?
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10/24/2010 8:22:45 PM
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nep4ever
Posts 45
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I just rolled up a new toon to try my hand at the double weapons. I had no trouble selecting the correct feats. I did notice however that when using the double weapon I only received damage from one side of the weapon not both ends. I am not sure if that is the way it should be but I thought I would mention it. I used the Dual Swords of Defence on my toon.
Rizzo's Stormtroopers
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10/25/2010 6:18:54 AM
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Ironxxx
Posts 23
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I levelled a gnome ftr/FB up to about 16th with the axe and sword in game and it was great fun - the axe is sick at low levels, the kobold cave on path of the ancients in particular. You don't need oversized TWF and there is no penalty for using the weapon like there would be when wielding two oversized weapons in one hand, with a small character you're just at +1 to hit for being small plus other bonuses. This seems to be the main appeal of the double enders, apart from the coolness factor. They're treated as one handers for the purpose of Power Attack though which I was quite disappointed about but it make sense. If I were you I'd dump the idea of going for PTWF and head for Greater instead, personally I don't think it's worth the trade off unless you're comfortable with going RDD to boost your Str back up.
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Mintyx > Ironbrow, Mintymillian Ironbreeches, Minto Ironfingers, Mintarn Ironwall
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12/5/2010 5:28:08 AM
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Furin
Posts 20
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Was wondering if there was going to be added support to double weapons to allow damage type class buffs to be applied properly. Such as Anointed Knight / Warrior of Darkness.
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12/5/2010 10:55:58 AM
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bbloom
Posts 1437
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Nope. We do not modify or work in Kaedrin's code to keep versioning as clean as possible and for Kaedrin to properly be able to diagnose or maintain his works.
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Brian S. Bloom
Realms of Trinity Executive Producer
Neverwinter Nights Podcast Host
Area Developer & Scripter
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